I could use a little help with my CP-soap.

[Susie]

Don't feel stupid. It shows how eager you are to learn this. You just need to slow down and act like a scientist for a bit. One step at the time. I have a challenge for you, though. Make a batch of soap using this recipe to see how you like soap without butters. I think you may be surprised.

CO-20%
Castor Oil-5%
Olive oil-25%
Lard/palm/tallow-50%
Sugar- 1 tablespoon PPO
Superfat-5%

I don't recall if you have an issue with lard or tallow, if you do, just use the palm. But if you have nothing against using animal fats, you really should try lard. It yields an amazing soap. This should give you a good, well behaved soap that is easy to use as a comparison for every other soap.

The reason I say to record where your EO/FO came from is that some scents from some manufacturers are notorious for misbehaving. Then you can get much the same scent from another source that is perfectly well behaved. Sources make a difference. And you are making soap so fast, that you are going to go through quite a bit. If I were you, I would even keep a list of badly behaved scents in your soaping binder or computer file. Add new ones as you run across them. That way, when you go to order more, you know what to avoid. Here's a link to a googledocs document from the Fragrance Oil Reviews forum.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...UVFTXY5M2o4MVRMZm4wdFE&authkey=CMTEtswL#gid=0

Speaking of recording what goes wrong, be sure to keep all your less than stellar recipes as well as your successes. You will learn quite a bit, and won't repeat those.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It's a good point (also why I don't use butters in my soaps) is that in a blind test by a fairly committed butter-user, they realised it didn't actually make that much difference at all, apart from adding to the cost and having to be carefully played with to stop the lather issue.

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

Don't feel stupid. It shows how eager you are to learn this. You just need to slow down and act like a scientist for a bit. One step at the time. I have a challenge for you, though. Make a batch of soap using this recipe to see how you like soap without butters. I think you may be surprised.

CO-20%
Castor Oil-5%
Olive oil-25%
Lard/palm/tallow-50%
Sugar- 1 tablespoon PPO
Superfat-5%

I don't recall if you have an issue with lard or tallow, if you do, just use the palm. But if you have nothing against using animal fats, you really should try lard. It yields an amazing soap. This should give you a good, well behaved soap that is easy to use as a comparison for every other soap.

The reason I say to record where your EO/FO came from is that some scents from some manufacturers are notorious for misbehaving. Then you can get much the same scent from another source that is perfectly well behaved. Sources make a difference. And you are making soap so fast, that you are going to go through quite a bit. If I were you, I would even keep a list of badly behaved scents in your soaping binder or computer file. Add new ones as you run across them. That way, when you go to order more, you know what to avoid. Here's a link to a googledocs document from the Fragrance Oil Reviews forum.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...UVFTXY5M2o4MVRMZm4wdFE&authkey=CMTEtswL#gid=0

Speaking of recording what goes wrong, be sure to keep all your less than stellar recipes as well as your successes. You will learn quite a bit, and won't repeat those.

It's a good point (also why I don't use butters in my soaps) is that in a blind test by a fairly committed butter-user, they realised it didn't actually make that much difference at all, apart from adding to the cost and having to be carefully played with to stop the lather issue.

Hello again and thank you so much for replying!

I don't get on this forum nearly as often as i'd like to. Things get in the way.

Thank you for the recipe, i'll be sure to try it. At what point should I add the sugar? In the lye-water before dissolving the lye?

I'll keep that in mind. So far i haven't had any bad experiences with EO/FO, other than that some have lost the scent. On the other hand I use very very little. About .25 - .5% instead of the recommended 3%.

I've learned a whole lot lately, mostly because i've changed my soaping style quite a bit.

I basically have two recipes now. One that I tweak a LITTLE bit each time and another one that i use when i'm testing additives or experimenting with water discounts.

Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction. I'm so very eager to learn, try and experiment. Haha

My soap making have improved alot, things have been working kind of well... until a couple of days ago.

I decided that i was going to try a new fragrance and things ran along so smoothly i started to get suspicious. I brought the batter to a pretty thick trace - thinking that i'm going to try doing a mica top, but nothing else so that doesn't matter. As I put away the stick blender i accidentally hit my container with pre-mixed mica, which of course got everywhere.

As the soap was setting up in the pot I decided that i'd deal with that mess in a while - I have to pour my soap. Said and done. Feeling happy about things working out anyway I looked to my left and realized that i had forgotten to add the fragrance. I panicked and poured it into the mold...

I realized pretty soon that this was a bad idea, but nothing to do about it now - right? When i finished i thought i'd give the mold a really good slam since i'd probably stirred in alot of bubbles. I slammed it so good that this little fountain of soap hit me in the head. At the same time I apparently decided that now would be a good time to lose some hair.

As I was trying to fish out the long strand of hair I had dropped into the mold I dropped my safety glasses in the soap.

Today I had very carefully planned out a soap design, where i'd pour it in two layers and then try to make swirled hearts. Pink at the bottom, white on top, pink hearts.

I poured the white one first. Panicked, poured half the pink and then threw in some black iron oxide - which gave the soap a lovely brown-grey-purple-ish color... Lovely indeed.

After that my squirt bottle basically exploded in my face. Soap everywhere. Thank god for safety glasses...

OH WELL.

 

[Susie]

Welcome to the world of soap gremlins. I swear they hit every time I think I have things under control. This, too, shall pass.

 

[JustBeachy]

Hello again and thank you so much for replying!

I don't get on this forum nearly as often as i'd like to. Things get in the way.

Thank you for the recipe, i'll be sure to try it. At what point should I add the sugar? In the lye-water before dissolving the lye?

I'll keep that in mind. So far i haven't had any bad experiences with EO/FO, other than that some have lost the scent. On the other hand I use very very little. About .25 - .5% instead of the recommended 3%.

I've learned a whole lot lately, mostly because i've changed my soaping style quite a bit.

I basically have two recipes now. One that I tweak a LITTLE bit each time and another one that i use when i'm testing additives or experimenting with water discounts.

Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction. I'm so very eager to learn, try and experiment. Haha

My soap making have improved alot, things have been working kind of well... until a couple of days ago.

I decided that i was going to try a new fragrance and things ran along so smoothly i started to get suspicious. I brought the batter to a pretty thick trace - thinking that i'm going to try doing a mica top, but nothing else so that doesn't matter. As I put away the stick blender i accidentally hit my container with pre-mixed mica, which of course got everywhere.

As the soap was setting up in the pot I decided that i'd deal with that mess in a while - I have to pour my soap. Said and done. Feeling happy about things working out anyway I looked to my left and realized that i had forgotten to add the fragrance. I panicked and poured it into the mold...

I realized pretty soon that this was a bad idea, but nothing to do about it now - right? When i finished i thought i'd give the mold a really good slam since i'd probably stirred in alot of bubbles. I slammed it so good that this little fountain of soap hit me in the head. At the same time I apparently decided that now would be a good time to lose some hair.

As I was trying to fish out the long strand of hair I had dropped into the mold I dropped my safety glasses in the soap.

Today I had very carefully planned out a soap design, where i'd pour it in two layers and then try to make swirled hearts. Pink at the bottom, white on top, pink hearts.

I poured the white one first. Panicked, poured half the pink and then threw in some black iron oxide - which gave the soap a lovely brown-grey-purple-ish color... Lovely indeed.

After that my squirt bottle basically exploded in my face. Soap everywhere. Thank god for safety glasses...

OH WELL.

Hahaha, that was the best read I've had in a while. I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you. You are laughing, aren't you?

Sounds like just one of those days. It happens.

Only thing I would say is, just slow down and relax. Don't try to over think the process. It seems like you're getting so much going on, then it starts moving quickly and .....well stuff happens. Try and lay stuff out in order, so you don't forget anything, like fragrance. But I have to admit, I've done that one before.
It, unfortunately, won't help with falling hair and exploding squeeze bottles. What's life without some curve balls.


It's good to see though that you have a sense of humor, and you're sticking with it. Clean it up, wait for the cut and lets get ready for round 6. The fight has just begun.

 

[Jstar]

I too LOL'd...because some of those things have happened to me...seems like when it goes wrong, it brings friends

Glad you are sticking with it...its a challenge, but it's sooooo fun and addicting

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

Thank you!

I felt a bit frustrated at the point, but i find it quite funny. I'm quite butter-fingered and clumsy so this is nothing new. Thank god I know this and therefore take quite extreme precautions when soaping.

My father, who is using NaOh and other mean chemicals in his daily job, is laughing his buttocks off at my safety gear.

I managed to buy NaOh from a pharmaceutical company around here and also managed to get some protective gear with it. So, super thick chemical resistant gloves - two pairs, a gigantic gas mask with a combination of filters, safety glasses and thick protective clothing (i'd love a hazmat suit).

They also gave me some kind of solution in case of lye spillage on any surface or on the skin.

I keep telling him better safe than sorry!

On another note. I've had some weird reactions and i've been googling myself insane. Maybe someone around here could help me (again)?

1, When I made my first batch with the new brand of lye my soap developed salt-like crystals on the top after a few days of curing. I've found a couple of forum threads about this phenomenon, but no answers. The thing we all have in common is that the soap is the first batch with a new kind of lye.

I did not dare to zap test, but i tried using ph-paper - which showed colours that did not exist of the chart. I decided to cut this part off and let it cure for a couple of days and see if any new crystals would form.

Got a new kind of Ph-paper, and checked a few days later. PH 10, no crystals. Can't find any other signs that it is lye heavy.

I'm 100% sure all the lye got dissolved, but i was wondering if lye can somehow "fall out" of the solution and re-crystalize?
I used a 2:1 (water:lye) solution, so that doesn't really seem plausible.

2, I find it really hard to tell if my soap has gelled or not. How do i know for sure if i don't see it happen?

Some are obvious due to partial gel or just lighter corners. Two of my gelled soaps have formed transluscent spots that i cannot find an explanation for. The first one I had this happen to hade these spots along the outer edges, but the other one hade them scattered all over the soap.

I've been testning them both extensively and this is a purely cosmetic issue. Really nice soap, except for this. It doesn't bother me, but i hate not knowing.

3, the second soap with spots was blotchy when unmoulding. About half was Cream-colored and the other half dark brown. But it darkened and turned dark Brown all over (yay!) after a couple of days. I'm very fascinated by this. What causes the colour to darken when exposed to air?
(Lye solution in this case was prepared with coffee). Again. Nothing wrong with the soap, just curious.

I'll attach some photos in another post.

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

The black/grey one is the one with crystals.

The white cheese-looking soap is the first one where i encountered the weird spots. Just the outer layer, easily cut off. The pink soap is the same batch, i just separeted out a part of it and colored it.

Then there's the Brown one. Weird spots, not as many, but scattered all through. Unfortunately i did not have anymore pictures of the spots on this one, but i can get some if anyone would like to see. You can also ser how ugly it was when i had just taken it out of the mold.

Last picture is a couple of days later when it hade changed color.

There's an apparent partial gel in this one and my best theory is that both of these soaps have gott en slightly overheated.

I've found a couple of forum threads about this stuff, but no answer.

Any ideas?

 

[JustBeachy]

Captain, just one word for ya. Pictures!

If you post some pics of the problems and/or the soaps, it makes it a lot easier to help you out. The crystals on top sound like soda ash, but without seeing them, it's just guessing.

I'm not advocating not using safety equipment at all here, but you might try getting you some thinner gloves at the least. Those big heavy gloves make it hard to manipulate little things and can lead to more accidents than they prevent. In my opinion. I'm probably more like your dad, and rarely use any equipment. Just been messing with dangerous stuff for so long it's gotten to be a bad habit. You keep safe and like I've said before, I'll hold down the idiot fort over here by myself.

Edit : And then I see your pics, so now I'm holding down the blind idiots fort.

 

[JustBeachy]

Looks like you have some uneven, overheating going on. Some air pockets, glycerin rivers, could be some additive/colorant not completely mixed. But if they're not zapping, you should be fine using them.

What are you using for a mold? A milk carton?

I'll pop back on and look at them a little closer in a bit. I'm running around the house like a crazy man today.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

As scary (or crazy!? As it may sound, zap testing is the best way to tell if your soap is skin safe. I do the '3-stage super safe zap test' :

Wet your fingers and get some of the soap on there. If no tingle then.......

......dab the soapy finger on the tip of the tongue. If no zap then........

......touch the soap to the tongue.

That way you're not putting an unknown object directly on the tongue, but gauging for some zap before hand.

PH just doesn't tell you the important piece of information - if your soap is safe. A soap can have a pH and be unsafe while another can have a higher pH and be safe.

 

[DeeAnna]

Beachy, I would like to ask you to wear some eye protection if nothing else. At least something like regular eye glasses if not safety goggles. Please?

I don't know if you have worked in the chemical industry, but I have ... and eye injuries from chemical burns are some of the ugliest and saddest accidents to deal with.

It only takes a few precious seconds and just a drop of lye to cause permanent eye damage, especially with the lye concentrations we use for making soap. If you want to burn your hide off, well, okay, that's your choice. But you only have 2 eyes and lye is so very aggressive.

I hafta say that a guy who can cook as well as you say you do ... as well as make soap ... and all ... well, I'd hate to see those beautiful baby blues (or browns) injured in any way.

 

[boyago]

Beachy, I would like to ask you to wear some eye protection if nothing else. At least something like regular eye glasses if not safety goggles. Please?

I don't know if you have worked in the chemical industry, but I have ... and eye injuries from chemical burns are some of the ugliest and saddest accidents to deal with.

It only takes a few precious seconds and just a drop of lye to cause permanent eye damage, especially with the lye concentrations we use for making soap. If you want to burn your hide off, well, okay, that's your choice. But you only have 2 eyes and lye is so very aggressive.

I hafta say that a guy who can cook as well as you say you do ... as well as make soap ... and all ... well, I'd hate to see those beautiful baby blues (or browns) injured in any way.

Yeah.

This was actually the morning after soaping while cleaning up. I must have picked up a lye bead or piece of active soap and rubbed my eye. The scary part was that I didn't feel a thing. My eye just started watering like crazy. I imagine if this was a lye splash while mixing I would have taken a trip to the ER. Though a life of piracy has it's appeal I'd like to fake the eye patch thing.

 

[JustBeachy]

Beachy, I would like to ask you to wear some eye protection if nothing else. At least something like regular eye glasses if not safety goggles. Please?

I don't know if you have worked in the chemical industry, but I have ... and eye injuries from chemical burns are some of the ugliest and saddest accidents to deal with.

It only takes a few precious seconds and just a drop of lye to cause permanent eye damage, especially with the lye concentrations we use for making soap. If you want to burn your hide off, well, okay, that's your choice. But you only have 2 eyes and lye is so very aggressive.

I hafta say that a guy who can cook as well as you say you do ... as well as make soap ... and all ... well, I'd hate to see those beautiful baby blues (or browns) injured in any way.

Well, I did finally have to start wearing glasses for reading and watching TV/Movies, so I have my bifocals on. There's something.

I hear you DeeAnn, and the more I joke about it, the more I know you're right. I was always the wild child, fast cars, motorcycles. Finding the highest thing to jump off of into the water, etc. People who knew me as a teenager and young adult almost always say the same thing when we meet again."Wow, I figured you'd be dead by now".

I've had some decent eye injury's before. Like a iron shaving that got embedded, but I thought it was just a scratch. 12 hours later it's rusting in my eye and they're drilling it out. No fun.

I promise, I'll get me some decent goggles at the least.

Yeah.

This was actually the morning after soaping while cleaning up. I must have picked up a lye bead or piece of active soap and rubbed my eye. The scary part was that I didn't feel a thing. My eye just started watering like crazy. I imagine if this was a lye splash while mixing I would have taken a trip to the ER. Though a life of piracy has it's appeal I'd like to fake the eye patch thing.

Ouch! Yeah, I've always had this thought of retiring to a "Captain Jack" kind of thing, but it was more about the sailboat cruising the Caribbean than the eye patch.

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

Looks like you have some uneven, overheating going on. Some air pockets, glycerin rivers, could be some additive/colorant not completely mixed. But if they're not zapping, you should be fine using them.

What are you using for a mold? A milk carton?

I'll pop back on and look at them a little closer in a bit. I'm running around the house like a crazy man today.

I forgot to mention that i'm pretty sure the yellow one overheated. Some of the spots on that one were hard and waxy and it had lost all scent. The rest of the spots were just translucent as shown in the brown soap.

Yup, they were all made in milk cartons. Standing milk cartons with screw cap. I thought that this might be causing the problem - no heat what so ever is allowed to escape, so i've been using milk cartons in a lying down fashion since then. I'm thinking that i should recreate any - or both - of these soaps in another mold (yay! notes!) and see what would happen.

Do you think the transluscent bubbles are glycerin rivers? That would explain alot. But i thought that it was highly unlikely that they would show up if one hadn't used titanium dioxide.

Regarding the safety equipment: As soon as the soap has traced i usually take off a pair of gloves

As scary (or crazy!? As it may sound, zap testing is the best way to tell if your soap is skin safe. I do the '3-stage super safe zap test' :

Wet your fingers and get some of the soap on there. If no tingle then.......

......dab the soapy finger on the tip of the tongue. If no zap then........

......touch the soap to the tongue.

That way you're not putting an unknown object directly on the tongue, but gauging for some zap before hand.

PH just doesn't tell you the important piece of information - if your soap is safe. A soap can have a pH and be unsafe while another can have a higher pH and be safe.

I did my first (and so far only) zap test a couple of weeks ago. I was so proud and told my friend about it. He thought i had gone completely mad. I now feel like a real soaper!

I'll give your zap method a try. At this point i'm mostly "testing" them with my hands. This would be far, far worse if the soap would be lye-heavy. But i don't know. I just get so scared when i'm about to zap test. Haha

Yeah.
View attachment 11062
This was actually the morning after soaping while cleaning up. I must have picked up a lye bead or piece of active soap and rubbed my eye. The scary part was that I didn't feel a thing. My eye just started watering like crazy. I imagine if this was a lye splash while mixing I would have taken a trip to the ER. Though a life of piracy has it's appeal I'd like to fake the eye patch thing.

Oh my goodness. Lye is scary that way. If you get it on the skin, the first sign is a slippery feeling, a while later it'll start itching. Soon after that the burn is a fact and at that point it's really hard to wash it off.

Many years ago i was handling lye and got some on my hand. Didn't notice a thing until it started itching. At that point my hand was red and by the time i started washing it had already burned away some skin.

This small patch of skin stayed rough and patchy for like 8 years. Crazy stuff.

I hope you are ok. Did you seek medical attention?

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

Oh. About re-creating the soap. I've decided to not make anymore soap now until i've had the chance to test at least one bar of each batch.

What's the point in tweaking a recipe a couple of days a week (i'm insane) when you don't even know if the first one you made is any good? :crazy:

 

[Susie]

Exactly. Find out whether you love or hate what you have already done. Then tweak.

 

[Captain_Potbelly]

Exactly. Find out whether you love or hate what you have already done. Then tweak.

But soap making is soooo much fuuuuun! I can't stop!

I've actually tried a few, but not as much as needed. I need to get another hobby. Maybe i'll start knitting. Give it a month and i've made 42 sweaters and 12 pairs of socks.

 

[JustBeachy]

Yeah , the milk cartons could be messing with the sides of your soap. Some are coated with wax, which shouldn't be a problem, but some are coated in a type of paint. Might be reacting with the lye.

Glycerin rivers/spots are supposedly caused more by high water percentages, more so than by heat.

Good job on the notes, It's really what will help you out more than anything. You can re make the exact batch in a different mold and see the differing results.

 

[DeeAnna]

Thanks for giving it some thought, Beachy!