Hyaluronic Acid

[KimHartley24]

Anyone try or know someone who has tried hyaluronic acid in soap? It'd probably need to be added in HP right before plopping in the mold. It's definitely better served in lotions and lip products but I'm just wondering if anyone has been able to utilize it's moisturizing properties.

 

[Maria]

I never thought of using hyaluronic acid due to the expense. I am considering trying a formula with DMAE since I came across an explanation on making a solution. I would add it after the cook.

 

[soapbuddy]

Soap is a wash off product. What would you hope to achieve with it?

 

[Maria]

Obviously it doesn't all wash off or we would all be making unscented soaps. I find certain ingredients added after the cook contribute to very nice soaps.

 

[KimHartley24]

I've definitely seen the benefit of saving certain ingredients to add in after saponification. During the winter I was using a soap that was the same recipe that I use now, except I dumped everything in at one time. The way I prepare it now is to save a portion of cocoa butter to add in right before plooping into the mold, and all the dry cracking dehydrated skin I had from my soap and my husband had from the store-bought liquid shea butter soap he was using healed up and felt really soft by the end of the week. It stands to reason that other ingredients can have similar effects. (And as Maria said, an hour later and my skin still smells delicious.)

The effect I would hope for it to have would be for some amount to stay behind on the user's skin. Hyaluronic acid can hold 1000 times it's weight in water so it's fantastic at preventing dehydration of the skin and keeping it soft and supple. It's present in everyone's body and used by doctors to relieve osteoarthritis pain by injecting it right into the joint. (It acts similar to the missing synovial fluid.) It's also used by plastic surgeons as an alternative medium for lip injections. As more is learned about it it's becoming more popular for beauty serums and lip products for it's ability to keep skin moist and healthy.

Okie epidermatology lesson over

@Maria: Yeah it is pretty expensive :/ I was thinking of it for a more designer bar though. I've kind of been feeling like leaning away from making soap that's low priced and readily available to everyone... rather in a few years maybe shifting focus to rare expensive ingredients from around the world and aiming towards the snobbier parts. Of course not for a few years though

ETA: Also it would be better marketed as part of a kit, or set, with other items like lotions etc. that contain hyaluronic acid. People tend to think that one ingredient a lot is better than several unmatching ingredients Ah, and before anyone jumps on me I will take into account if someone uses every product at once what concentration it will end up leaving on the skin Also, hyaluronic acid will not be the only beneficial ingredient in there Sorry if this seems overly defensive but this forum tends to like finding holes and ripping them open...

 

[carebear]

if it's such an awesome humectant, does it interfere with the (desirable) evaporation of water from the soap?

i'm with soapbuddy - soap is a wash off product and I don't see it being efficacious in this application. and many (most) fragrance chemicals are NOT substantive on skin when applied through the use of soap. so unless there's some proof it sticks around...

kim, if you use it and make or even imply health claims or moisturizing claims then you are in the world of cosmetics and/or drugs and that's a whole different ball of wax for regulations and labeling.

as for "finding holes" and "ripping them open" - I'd say it's more that we actively discuss pros and cons, and bring to the forefront potential problems and issues. if you don't want discourse then a forum may not be the best place to discuss things. because open discussion is one of the best ways to learn and teach and that's what this place is all about. you make a statement, someone responds, you reply, there is a question, there is a discussion... it makes one think! there are places where you get just a smile and a pat on the head and a "good job" - but how much are you going to learn from that?

 

[KimHartley24]

I'm aware that certain claims require more in-depth FDA regulation and I'm not scared. In aesthetic training we learned what forms to fill out and fees to pay and the people we need to hire to back us up so if in a couple years I want to make a claim of some sort, I'm pretty sure I can crack open my textbooks again (Or talk to the dean) and find the right people. : )

I'm amazed that my flippant remark got such an impassioned response! Rest assured I'm not looking for a "pat on the head," and I welcome pros and cons! But as I am talking about a different and (relatively) new chemical to introduce to my soaping, I just want to prove that I am not ill-informed and throwing expensive untried ingredients willy nilly into customer's faces. I will add that where there is any hint of a con, it will be pointed out, even if in the end it's not really a problem. There's nothing wrong with trying to fix things before someone tries to point out that it's flawed and broken! Especially if you know it's coming! : )

I personally have not been shut down I don't think.... but I've read (nearly) every thread from the past 6 months so I know sometimes people are let down in a less than gentle fashion. A place full of humans who have their own thoughts and opinions and have their own life experiences teaching them "this is this" and "that is that," being able to speak their mind without looking someone else in the eye... it does lead to people getting riled up over things that others have no experience with, and have not had the same traumatizing experiences. (Nor know someone else who has.)

Please know that in no way was I trying to insult the board or the people who use it. This is an awesome resource if someone wants to learn more about the intricacies of soaping or is looking to expand their current repertoire of ingredients/recipes. It's awesome that often when one soaper discovers something new they'll share it with the entire board so selflessly. It's also fantastic if someone is running into trouble and list their process, so many people will join together to give tips and hints on how to correct the issue.

Hope I've been able to properly suture hurt feelings <3

ETA: Forgot to answer the water evaporation part! I think someone would have to try it out before finding out if it interferes. It seems logical that it would, but then again it also seems plausible that it would remain stable since the water is within another structure. Honey and glycerine are humectants so maybe it wouldn't be a problem?

 

[soapbuddy]

I'm a Licensed Esthetician also. From my point of view, I would use this ingredient in a lotion or a cream without touting any medical benefits. Otherwise it becomes an OTC (over the counter drug) with very expensive testing, which most handcrafters cannot afford.

 

[carebear]

it's unlikely you could "hurt" my "feelings". it wasn't about my feelings that I was posting. it was about the fact that if you bring a topic to a board where discussions take place, that you should expect discussion. and to anticipate not being thrilled with all of it. we are all adults here, so "gentle" may not be the route some of us take in explaining thigs - we tend to be straightforward.

back on topic - from my work in the pharmaceutical, cosmetic, and consumer products industries I will add that you're going to need more than forms and fees. glad you aren't scared, and hope your pockets are deep.

 

[Healinya]

The thought of hyaluronic acid in soap sounds like a sad waste of money to me lol.. IF you can get any of it to absorb into the skin, which I doubt will happen while you are cleansing it, there's a large percentage going down the drain. It holds 1000x it weight in water, but there is water in soap.. plus, a high ph like soap is literally stripping the barrier lipids.. so trying to moisturize while stripping the skin is a bit counter-productive... certainly no chance using cp method, as the lye will kill the acid chain.. hyaluronic acid needs antioxidants to help inhibit the enzyme that breaks it down (hyaluronidase)..

I'd save it for topical applications where it will do good..

 

[KimHartley24]

@Soapbuddy Awesome Yeah I definitely feel it's much better served in lotions or balms, and I know the effectiveness would be much reduced, if it works at all. And you're right; if in a couple of years if I did decide to go forward in using it (if it didn't curdle the soap) I'd talk about what hyaluronic acid is proven to do, not what my soap did. Just like one can say "I included Aloe vera because of it's known soothing properties and how it's full of rich moisture," rather than "My soap soothes irritated skin and moisturizes because I put Aloe vera in it."

@Healinya Yeah I definitely wouldn't do it during cold process. It's good to know that about the antioxidants... maybe there is an antioxidant that would thrive in soap and do the job? Is hyaluronidase a byproduct of soaping? I wonder if there's a way to inhibit hyaluronidase in soap... or maybe it's certain oils that foster it's creation?

I was also thinking about creating the same type of spinning cylinder that candymakers use to coat candy with cornstarch or a candy shell. I'm not sure of the consistancy of raw hyaluronic acid... but maybe i could freeze drops of a lotion or tincture and then coat them in something biologically inert (or heck, maybe even cocoa butter) that will act as a barrier inbetween it and the soap? Preserving the ingredient as it's suspended in the soap and depositing moisture as the suds wash away? It's seems like it'd be similar to those moisturizing blue beads that b&bw uses in their soaps and hand sanitizers... but probably a wee bit bigger. It seems like it'd not be practical... but if people only asked practical questions there'd be no planes or spaceships


ETA: Maybe a combo of cocoa butter and a hard cosmetic wax? But it'd have to have a low melting point... which would make it soft and more likely that the soap would consume it... :O Bears more thought! If LUSH can put whole maraschino cherries in their soap without rot then I'm sure I can find a way to make THIS work

 

[Tabitha]

ETA: Maybe a combo of cocoa butter and a hard cosmetic wax? But it'd have to have a low melting point... which would make it soft and more likely that the soap would consume it... :O Bears more thought! If LUSH can put whole maraschino cherries in their soap without rot then I'm sure I can find a way to make THIS work

But it does rot, Dear. Do a little googling & you will find all sorts of rot in LUSH products, esp in the avocado bathbombs. There are members on this very forum who have possesed rotted LUSH products. Seems lie carebear has had a few unless I am thinking of someone esle.

 

[KimHartley24]

Heehee well no maraschino cherries then But encapsulated lotion beads...

 

[not_ally]

@AliOop, I think most of SCM's posts are behind a paywall now. I have deliberately *not* joined because in some ways the rabbit hole was too distracting, I'd look for an answer to something, not find it, but discover a dozen more interesting questions.