Humidity levels??

[Jen74]

Okay, I am getting super frustrated lately due to my soaps going rancid. I tried buying different brands of oils( I use palm kernel and palm oils) and even made a batch using the HP method since I was usually only using the CP. I made a batch of HP the other day, and already I notice a hint of the rancid smell starting again. It really starts smelling at the two week mark into curing. I cannot for the life of me figure this out. I have checked and double checked everything in terms of what I use( meaning I use No aluminum, and very careful). My first two batches I made back last year turned out fine. The only difference I can think is that I made those during the winter( so It was much drier in my home). It is summer here, but I keep my AC on all the time and the temp is usually 74 or 75 degrees inside. I am wondering if it has something to do with the humiditiy??? The humidity is around 45-50 % . In the winter when the heat is on, it is more like 30 to 35% humidity which is much lower. Could my house be to humid??? Could that be causing my soap to go rancid while it is in the curing stage? Is 45 to 50 % humidity considered high in terms of curing soap?? I apologize for all the questions, I am still kind of new to this. Any suggestions or opinions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Marsi]

Jen74 one potential cause is your lye crystals
are you still using the same batch of lye?

lye crystals take on water from the air easily
if your lye container has been opened a few times in humid weather or stored in less than ideal conditions you might have unintended extra superfat in your soaps

high superfat soaps curing in mid to high humidity have a higher risk of rancidity

 

[penelopejane]

How old are your oil?
smell each of your oils and assess whether they have gone rancid. You’ll know if they have. I use ROE - rosemary oleoresin extract at 0.5% as soon as I get my oils to keep them from going off.
where are your oils kept? Out of the sun/light?
where are your soaps cured?
Hygeine Is really important in keeping soap from developing DOS. I don’t ever touch my soap unless I have gloves on. I don’t use any metal except the SS SBlender. My soap cures on racks that have plastic mesh and a linen tea towel separating the soap from the plastic coated racks. I change the tea towels frequently and watch for any moisture. There is lots of air flow around all the soap.
Does the soap sweat?
Are there yellow dots on the soap or is it over all patches of yellow?
Do you use Isopropyl alcohol?
What fragrances do you use?

There are a huge number of reasons why soaps might go off.

 

[Jen74]

Jen74 one potential cause is your lye crystals
are you still using the same batch of lye?

lye crystals take on water from the air easily
if your lye container has been opened a few times in humid weather or stored in less than ideal conditions you might have unintended extra superfat in your soaps

high superfat soaps curing in mid to high humidity have a higher risk of rancidity

Well we opened a new bag of Lye actually when we made the batch that went rancid.

 

[Marsi]

pj jen74 talked about changing pko in this thread Has anyone on here ever had their soap start smelling rancid while it was curing?? after other people talked about the pko brand causing dos in this earlier thread Soap smelling like old oil two weeks into curing??

Well we opened a new bag of Lye actually when we made the batch that went rancid.

so many variables it is going to be hard to pinpoint the problem

jen74 try making the smallest batch you can step us through the process as you go (with photos)
apply penelopejanes pointers from this thread and others from the earlier threads

also make a small trial batch with a zero superfat and set that to cure
the calculated zero wont be a real zero so the soap will be safe when it passes the zap test
if it goes rancid i would suspect the oils if it doesnt then i would suspect the lye purity

 

[Jen74]

How old are your oil?
smell each of your oils and assess whether they have gone rancid. You’ll know if they have. I use ROE - rosemary oleoresin extract at 0.5% as soon as I get my oils to keep them from going off.
where are your oils kept? Out of the sun/light?
where are your soaps cured?
Hygeine Is really important in keeping soap from developing DOS. I don’t ever touch my soap unless I have gloves on. I don’t use any metal except the SS SBlender. My soap cures on racks that have plastic mesh and a linen tea towel separating the soap from the plastic coated racks. I change the tea towels frequently and watch for any moisture. There is lots of air flow around all the soap.
Does the soap sweat?
Are there yellow dots on the soap or is it over all patches of yellow?
Do you use Isopropyl alcohol?
What fragrances do you use?

There are a huge number of reasons why soaps might go off.

I have been very careful to not touch my soap. Also the only metal I use is the Stick blender which is stainless steel. I do not add any fragrances because I am super sensitive. I only use palm oil, palm kernel oil , lye and water using the SoapCalc calculator. I cure them in our kitchen/living room ( we have an open concept area). I thought about using the bedroom, but I think it would be more humid since our bathroom is in the bedroom and it might get more humid with the shower going. I keep them out of the sunlight and away from metal( they cure sitting on a plastic shelf). The oils smell fine in the bottle, they have barely any odor at all. It is when the soaps are in the curing stage that they start going rancid. There is no sweat at all on the soaps, the look dry. I have not seen any oragnce spots at all on this batch, but can kind of smell the a tiny hint of the rancid smell starting. It is usually two weeks into curing when the smell really starts getting strong. I did notcie a couple tiny orange spots on my one last batch that went ranid, however the spots showed up a couple weeks after the bad smell started. I mean it has to be a humidity thing right? That is the only thing different since I made my first two batched back last year( during the winter) which came out fine. In the winter our house in much drier due to the heat being on. I wonder if a table top dehumidifer would be helpful to sit next to the soaps while they are curing??? Also, when do you add the ROE to your soap batches?

 

[penelopejane]

I read the other thread and agree with Irish Lass that it’s probably the oil you are using.
I buy most of my oils from reliable soap supply places that have a large turnover. I had trouble once with jojoba oil which I had only just bought, it was well within date but caused rancidity in every soap I made with it. The oil smelt fine. It still smells fine a year later but I can’t use it in soap.
I add ROE to my liquid oils as soon as they are delivered.

I’d only use a dehumidifier if your soap sweats.
I thought I was the only obsessive who only touches my soap with gloves. Everyone one YouTube uses bare hands!!

 

[Jen74]

I read the other thread and agree with Irish Lass that it’s probably the oil you are using.
I buy most of my oils from reliable soap supply places that have a large turnover. I had trouble once with jojoba oil which I had only just bought, it was well within date but caused rancidity in every soap I made with it. The oil smelt fine. It still smells fine a year later but I can’t use it in soap.
I add ROE to my liquid oils as soon as they are delivered.

I’d only use a dehumidifier if your soap sweats.
I thought I was the only obsessive who only touches my soap with gloves. Everyone one YouTube uses bare hands!!

Well I bought my oils this time from a company that was highly recommended. I used soapers Choice. I mean I live right near the place and was able to actually pick it up from the place. So I used totally different brands and still am getting the rancid smell after the soap is made. I am at a loss at this point. Do you think it is the combination of Palm oil and Palm kernel oil that is making the soap go rancid? It is just strange that my 2 batches I made during the winter were fine using the same ingredients. How much ROE do you add and to what amount of oil?

 

[BattleGnome]

Are you the only one that smells the rancid smell?

I’m not doubting you that it’s there but you could be a random “super smeller.” Several people on the forum choose not to use lard because they can smell the piggy lardy smell in their cured soaps. Just tossing the idea out there just in case. If you’re the only one who smells it with no evident discoloration.... you could just be sensitive. I have no explanation why you would smell it now and not in your other batches unless you have some recent health changes.

 

[Jen74]

Are you the only one that smells the rancid smell?

I’m not doubting you that it’s there but you could be a random “super smeller.” Several people on the forum choose not to use lard because they can smell the piggy lardy smell in their cured soaps. Just tossing the idea out there just in case. If you’re the only one who smells it with no evident discoloration.... you could just be sensitive. I have no explanation why you would smell it now and not in your other batches unless you have some recent health changes.
[/QUOT


No I actually thought it might just be me as well lol, but I asked my husband and my dad to both smell the soap. They also smell the rancid smell..

 

[shunt2011]

There's something else going on. Unless the oils are already rancid they aren't going to become rancid that quickly.

 

[Jen74]

There's something else going on. Unless the oils are already rancid they aren't going to become rancid that quickly.

They usually start smelling a bit off at 2 weeks into curing. The smell just gets stronger then as time goes on. This is very frustrating...

 

[Todd Ziegler]

They usually start smelling a bit off at 2 weeks into curing. The smell just gets stronger then as time goes on. This is very frustrating...

What method are you using to melt your oils, also what kind of vessel are you using to melt your oils in?

 

[Jen74]

What method are you using to melt your oils, also what kind of vessel are you using to melt your oils in?

We have used both a stainless steel pot and also a ceramic crock pot. I melt the oils until they are between 100-120 degrees ( usually at 105- 110) before I add my lye water. Then I proceed to using my stick blender to blend everything until trace. That's with the CP. With the hot I did the same thing, but then cooked it on low for about an hour and 10 minutes stirring it throughout.

 

[Obsidian]

I would try making small batches of single oil soaps so you can try to find the culprit.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

We have used both a stainless steel pot and also a ceramic crock pot. I melt the oils until they are between 100-120 degrees ( usually at 105- 110) before I add my lye water. Then I proceed to using my stick blender to blend everything until trace. That's with the CP. With the hot I did the same thing, but then cooked it on low for about an hour and 10 minutes stirring it throughout.

May be try the double boiler method using plastic.

 

[glendam]

What are the fluid oils in your recipe? I live in a high humidity area. For example, the humidity today is 84%. We always keep the AC on, and last year I bought a dehumidifier for the craft room. Even before that, I did not get a lot of DOS in most of my soaps, but in the ones that I did, and quickly, were in the ones where I had use short lived fluid oils (like grapeseed oil).
Other than that, I noticed it in the soaps made with lard. I mostly get DOS in some of my stored soap dough, and I am not sure why. Besides that, I noticed it in the really old soaps, over 1-2 years old that I was keeping for comparison, which I just threw them out last week.

 

[Jen74]

What are the fluid oils in your recipe? I live in a high humidity area. For example, the humidity today is 84%. We always keep the AC on, and last year I bought a dehumidifier for the craft room. Even before that, I did not get a lot of DOS in most of my soaps, but in the ones that I did, and quickly, were in the ones where I had use short lived fluid oils (like grapeseed oil).
Other than that, I noticed it in the soaps made with lard. I mostly get DOS in some of my stored soap dough, and I am not sure why. Besides that, I noticed it in the really old soaps, over 1-2 years old that I was keeping for comparison, which I just threw them out last week.

I am using palm oil which is more fluid. and palm kernal oil is more solid and has to be melted. I do not add any other ingredients or fragrances due to my being sensitive to lots of stuff. This is really a conundrum. I mean the oils smell fine in the containers. The rancid smell starts happening about 2 weeks into curing. The smell comes way before any spots show up. In Fact the one batch only a few bars had a couple orange spots, but they all had a rancid odor. I even made a different batch using different brand of oils thinking maybe it was just a bad oil, but still the newest batch is starting to get a slight odor too. Maybe I need a fan and a dehumidifier? I live in a small home so not many choices in rooms to cure my soap lol. I cure it in the living room/ kitchen as we have athe open concept with out kitchen and living room. My meter I have shows 45% humidity where I am curing the soaps. The temp in the house is about 74 degrees. We run the AC all the time right now since it's hot outside ( I'm in Chicago). I am at a loss.

 

[Jen74]

May be try the double boiler method using plastic.

I've never used this method. How does it work?

 

[Todd Ziegler]

I've never used this method. How does it work?

I use a large stainless steel pot, fill it with water and bring it to a simmer. I then put all my un-melted oils in a laboratory grade plastic pitcher, then I put the pitcher inside the SS pot and then wait for the oils to melt. If you Google using a double boiler, you can get a better idea of how it works.

I also use a double boiler ring/insert. If you want, I can send you a link to both items. They are very cheap.