Humidity levels??

[Jen74]

I use a large stainless steel pot, fill it with water and bring it to a simmer. I then put all my un-melted oils in a laboratory grade plastic pitcher, then I put the pitcher inside the SS pot and then wait for the oils to melt. If you Google using a double boiler, you can get a better idea of how it works.

I also use a double boiler ring/insert. If you want, I can send you a link to both items. They are very cheap.

Thanks for explaining this. Yes, please send me the links, I appreciate it!!

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Thanks for explaining this. Yes, please send me the links, I appreciate it!!

Fox Run 5695 Double Boiler Maker, 5-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00024WP66/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apap_CIpUtZDon7cTb

ULAB Scientific Half Handle Plastic Measuring Beaker Set, Stackable 5 Sizes 250ml 500ml 1000ml 2000ml 3000ml, with Spout and Molded Graduation, UBP1004 Robot Check

These plastic pitchers can withstand up to 312°F. I have been using them for a year now at least once a week and they are still good.

You put the ring in the bottom of the pot and set the pitcher on top of it so that the hot water surrounds it. It melts the oils very gently without burning/scorching them.

I'm suggesting this method because you could be getting the oils to hot when melting them or scorching them without knowing that you are.

 

[glendam]

I am using palm oil which is more fluid. and palm kernal oil is more solid and has to be melted. I do not add any other ingredients or fragrances due to my being sensitive to lots of stuff. This is really a conundrum. I mean the oils smell fine in the containers. The rancid smell starts happening about 2 weeks into curing. The smell comes way before any spots show up. In Fact the one batch only a few bars had a couple orange spots, but they all had a rancid odor. I even made a different batch using different brand of oils thinking maybe it was just a bad oil, but still the newest batch is starting to get a slight odor too. Maybe I need a fan and a dehumidifier? I live in a small home so not many choices in rooms to cure my soap lol. I cure it in the living room/ kitchen as we have athe open concept with out kitchen and living room. My meter I have shows 45% humidity where I am curing the soaps. The temp in the house is about 74 degrees. We run the AC all the time right now since it's hot outside ( I'm in Chicago). I am at a loss.
[/QUOT

Are they close to sunlight by chance? (Either direct or reflected?)

 

[Jen74]

Are they close to sunlight by chance? (Either direct or reflected?)

No not at all

 

[Jen74]

Fox Run 5695 Double Boiler Maker, 5-Inch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00024WP66/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apap_CIpUtZDon7cTb

ULAB Scientific Half Handle Plastic Measuring Beaker Set, Stackable 5 Sizes 250ml 500ml 1000ml 2000ml 3000ml, with Spout and Molded Graduation, UBP1004 Robot Check

These plastic pitchers can withstand up to 312°F. I have been using them for a year now at least once a week and they are still good.

You put the ring in the bottom of the pot and set the pitcher on top of it so that the hot water surrounds it. It melts the oils very gently without burning/scorching them.

I'm suggesting this method because you could be getting the oils to hot when melting them or scorching them without knowing that you are.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Becky1024]

Sorry I don't have an answer for you. I don't think its your humidity. 45-50% RH is common in air conditioned areas. I soap in those conditions and have never had the rancid smell (I use other oils though).

Since you mentioned you live near Soaper's Choice, you might contact them and see if you can bring in a sample. They might be able to help you identify what is going on.

 

[Tinyson]

Okay, I am getting super frustrated lately due to my soaps going rancid. I tried buying different brands of oils( I use palm kernel and palm oils) and even made a batch using the HP method since I was usually only using the CP. I made a batch of HP the other day, and already I notice a hint of the rancid smell starting again. It really starts smelling at the two week mark into curing. I cannot for the life of me figure this out. I have checked and double checked everything in terms of what I use( meaning I use No aluminum, and very careful). My first two batches I made back last year turned out fine. The only difference I can think is that I made those during the winter( so It was much drier in my home). It is summer here, but I keep my AC on all the time and the temp is usually 74 or 75 degrees inside. I am wondering if it has something to do with the humiditiy??? The humidity is around 45-50 % . In the winter when the heat is on, it is more like 30 to 35% humidity which is much lower. Could my house be to humid??? Could that be causing my soap to go rancid while it is in the curing stage? Is 45 to 50 % humidity considered high in terms of curing soap?? I apologize for all the questions, I am still kind of new to this. Any suggestions or opinions are greatly appreciated.

I have an idea; If you have an enclosed cupboard that you keep your soap in, Try putting in a 100 watt light bulb to cut the Humidity down. It will also warm up the cupboard. Please let me know if this help.

 

[linne1gi]

I didn’t see you mention anything about your water. Are you using distilled water? There are metals (microscopic) in tap water. I also second using ROE, an excellent antioxidant. I add ROE to my oils when I open them. I live in South Florida, pretty much the home of heat & humidity. I do live in year round AC - but I don’t have a dehumidifier. The only time I had DOS, I had used Grapeseed Oil, which I no longer use.

 

[cmzaha]

Are these milk soaps by chance?

 

[Jen74]

I didn’t see you mention anything about your water. Are you using distilled water? There are metals (microscopic) in tap water. I also second using ROE, an excellent antioxidant. I add ROE to my oils when I open them. I live in South Florida, pretty much the home of heat & humidity. I do live in year round AC - but I don’t have a dehumidifier. The only time I had DOS, I had used Grapeseed Oil, which I no longer use.

Yes, I use distilled water

 

[Jen74]

Are these milk soaps by chance?

No. Just palm oil and palm kernel oil

 

[Marsi]

someone mentioned this method recently SMF April 2018 Challenge - Sous Vide (HP) Soap swirling!

it is like todds idea of but you can try it out without buying a new jug
the soap cooks in a sealed ziplock bag and submerged in hot not boiling water
or steamed in the bag

i like obsidians idea to make a single oil soap
take it one step further and cure little pucks of this soap in different areas around the house
if the curing environment is a problem some of the pucks will turn before others and that will help you pinpoint the problem

if the lye is the only change other than the season try a different lye

 

[Jen74]

someone mentioned this method recently SMF April 2018 Challenge - Sous Vide (HP) Soap swirling!

it is like todds idea of but you can try it out without buying a new jug
the soap cooks in a sealed ziplock bag and submerged in hot not boiling water
or steamed in the bag

i like obsidians idea to make a single oil soap
take it one step further and cure little pucks of this soap in different areas around the house
if the curing environment is a problem some of the pucks will turn before others and that will help you pinpoint the problem

if the lye is the only change other than the season try a different lye

Thank you! Yes that is what I am going to do. I am using Sodium Hydroxide by Belle Chemical. I used this same brand to make my first first batches which came out okay. I even bought a new bag of it to make my last batch as well. What other brands are there of lye?

 

[Marsi]

Thank you! Yes that is what I am going to do. I am using Sodium Hydroxide by Belle Chemical. I used this same brand to make my first first batches which came out okay. I even bought a new bag of it to make my last batch as well. What other brands are there of lye?

shipping on my local brands might be expensive
j/k

i see this name on the forum often 2 - Buy Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) | Jim Sweeting, The Lye Guy

 

[earlene]

I live in Illinois as well and with my AC on all the time, I don't get rancity like you mention, however, I do get it faster when I store my curing soaps in a much hotter room (not all rooms are as cool as the main floor). My oils are different that your oils, though. So is my lye.

But my suggestion would be to ensure your curing racks are not contributing to the problem. Perhaps the curing area has become contaminated and needs a thorough cleaning before put back into service. Ensure there is no residual contaminants on whatever your soap may come into contact with during the curing process. It could be as simple as that, or a combination of factors.

My lye usually comes from Essential Depot, but I also occasionally use lye I purchase from Tractor Supply Company (in the plumbing aisle). I have used lye from the Lye Guy and other sources as well. In my experience, I have not ID'd any of the lye I've used as the contaminant causing rancidity, although I know that is possible. More often than not, it has seemed to be caused by the original oils used, but sometimes I have discovered a nearby contaminant (another rancid soap, for example) was the most likely suspect.

Even when oils are supposedly fresh (as in you just purchased them), it is possible they were stored improperly before they ever came to you. If that were the case, it could contribute to the problem. In the past I learned that oil stored in my garage inside closed containers will go bad really fast once opened (no AC in the garage. - I don't store it there now, but I did in the past.)

As mentioned before, adding ROE to the liquid oils as soon as I open the bottles can help prevent DOS, but I also suggest you read up on how to prevent DOS in this link, as ROE alone isn't as effective as when in combination. Personally, I use ROE in the oils and add EDTA when making each batch of soap. Others here use some of the other combinations mentioned in Dr. Dunn's article.

 

[Jen74]

I live in Illinois as well and with my AC on all the time, I don't get rancity like you mention, however, I do get it faster when I store my curing soaps in a much hotter room (not all rooms are as cool as the main floor). My oils are different that your oils, though. So is my lye.

But my suggestion would be to ensure your curing racks are not contributing to the problem. Perhaps the curing area has become contaminated and needs a thorough cleaning before put back into service. Ensure there is no residual contaminants on whatever your soap may come into contact with during the curing process. It could be as simple as that, or a combination of factors.

My lye usually comes from Essential Depot, but I also occasionally use lye I purchase from Tractor Supply Company (in the plumbing aisle). I have used lye from the Lye Guy and other sources as well. In my experience, I have not ID'd any of the lye I've used as the contaminant causing rancidity, although I know that is possible. More often than not, it has seemed to be caused by the original oils used, but sometimes I have discovered a nearby contaminant (another rancid soap, for example) was the most likely suspect.

Even when oils are supposedly fresh (as in you just purchased them), it is possible they were stored improperly before they ever came to you. If that were the case, it could contribute to the problem. In the past I learned that oil stored in my garage inside closed containers will go bad really fast once opened (no AC in the garage. - I don't store it there now, but I did in the past.)

As mentioned before, adding ROE to the liquid oils as soon as I open the bottles can help prevent DOS, but I also suggest you read up on how to prevent DOS in this link, as ROE alone isn't as effective as when in combination. Personally, I use ROE in the oils and add EDTA when making each batch of soap. Others here use some of the other combinations mentioned in Dr. Dunn's article.

Thank you. I will definiitely look into this. I was trying not to add any other ingredients to my soaps due to my sensitivities. For me less is best Lol! I cannot say that my curing place is contaminated, I have cleaned it very well each time. I truly am at a loss. I ordered even different brand oils( soapers choice) and still seem to have a possible issue. I made a batch of HP three days ago and I can already smell a hint of the rancid smell. It is not bad yet as it has only been three days curing. It seems like it really starts smelling at the two week mark. I also made a batch of CP the day before yesterday as well so I am watching this one as well. So far no odor, but with the CP I made before that went rancid, I did not smell anything until the second to third week. It is really frustrating. I am going to try makins a small single soap batch using only one oil to see if it is one of the oils. I will also look into maybe trying another lye. I used the same brand before last year when I made my soap and those two batches were good. I might try another brand though. The one I am using is by Belle Chemical and is Sodium Hydroxide. Is it common for Lye to cause an oil to go ranicd? I mean it seems like my oils smell fine in the containers, it is only when they are curing that they go rancid. Something is happening during the curing stage it seems.

 

[Marsi]

Curing a bar or puck of your HP soap in different locations around your house will show quickly if there is a problem in your curing area (days )

 

[melinda48]

I live in Illinois as well and with my AC on all the time, I don't get rancity like you mention, however, I do get it faster when I store my curing soaps in a much hotter room (not all rooms are as cool as the main floor). My oils are different that your oils, though. So is my lye.

But my suggestion would be to ensure your curing racks are not contributing to the problem. Perhaps the curing area has become contaminated and needs a thorough cleaning before put back into service. Ensure there is no residual contaminants on whatever your soap may come into contact with during the curing process. It could be as simple as that, or a combination of factors.

My lye usually comes from Essential Depot, but I also occasionally use lye I purchase from Tractor Supply Company (in the plumbing aisle). I have used lye from the Lye Guy and other sources as well. In my experience, I have not ID'd any of the lye I've used as the contaminant causing rancidity, although I know that is possible. More often than not, it has seemed to be caused by the original oils used, but sometimes I have discovered a nearby contaminant (another rancid soap, for example) was the most likely suspect.

Even when oils are supposedly fresh (as in you just purchased them), it is possible they were stored improperly before they ever came to you. If that were the case, it could contribute to the problem. In the past I learned that oil stored in my garage inside closed containers will go bad really fast once opened (no AC in the garage. - I don't store it there now, but I did in the past.)

As mentioned before, adding ROE to the liquid oils as soon as I open the bottles can help prevent DOS, but I also suggest you read up on how to prevent DOS in this link, as ROE alone isn't as effective as when in combination. Personally, I use ROE in the oils and add EDTA when making each batch of soap. Others here use some of the other combinations mentioned in Dr. Dunn's article.

What is EDTA? I have looked at my glossary but don’t find it. Thanks.

 

[earlene]

Jen, I am not familiar with Belle Chemicals, so cannot venture an opinion.

However, it is possible that contaminants can be introduced into a container of lye inadvertently, either in the manufacturing and packaging process and/or by the consumer after opening the container. Contaminants can be anything that will contribute to DOS.

What is your superfat percentage set at for these soaps? Soaps with a higher superfat can turn DOSy when the extra un-altered oil is exposed to oxygen. This was previously mentioned, but I did not see your answer. It is not necessarily inevitable, but can happen given the right circumstances.

I highly support the single oil soap test for eliminating which oil may be contributing to the problem. I would do one very small batch using the SF you already use AND one very small batch with a Zero SF as a control for each of the oils you use in your soap formula. Then when you cure them watch to see if the high SF turns rancid vs the low SF soaps and pay attention to how long it takes respectively if they so. As previously mentioned, the Zero SF setting will probably not really be actually 0 SF, but close enough. There is a margin of error built in for SF in your standard soap/lye calculators. To get an ACTUAL Zero SF, you would need to be more stringent in your calculations, but for this test, close is good enough.

I also second the suggestions to try a few different curing conditions and locations to see if that factors in, as it may well help you identify other contributing factors. In my experience, fluctuating temperatures, air-flow, sun-light through a window, all have factored in when curing soap.

What is EDTA? I have looked at my glossary but don’t find it. Thanks.

Sodium Ethylenediammine Tetraacetate - see the article I linked in the quoted post; it is explained there.

 

[jentlesoaps]

Try formulating at a is super fat, say 5% for example. Then use a chelator such as tetrasodium edta to bind the water during cure to stop oxidation of your oils.