How to achieve certain opacity/finish

[rainycityjen]

I put two batches in the oven at 170 deg last night. Put them in, after 45 mins turned oven off, took them out 30 mins later.

I didn't take "before" pics to compare, but I detect maybe a slight difference in the translucency or appearance of the soap. The main body of it, anyway. The crumbly edges are still crumbly. This might have to do with my consistency at pour or FO.

Will try a "proper" CPOP and a "delayed" CPOP for my next few batches and play with different pour consistencies.

 

[IrishLass]

Ungelled soap being more soluble than gelled? That idea came from the forums when I was just starting out. Gelled soaps were "harder" than ungelled so lather was slightly less. Don't remember reading about it in Dunn's book.

Pages 306-312 of Dr. Dunn's book. The photo mentioned by topofnurrayhill in his post is located on page 312. For those that don't have the book, here us a link to Dr. Dunn's soak test experiments conducted on gelled and un-gelled soaps: http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgTemperature2009.pdf (scroll down the section that says, "Time and Temperature")

IrishLass



]

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Pages 306-312 of Dr. Dunn's book. The photo mentioned by topofnurrayhill in his post is located on page 312. For those that don't have the book, here us a link to Dr. Dunn's soak test experiments conducted on gelled and un-gelled soaps:

Well here's something interesting that I never noticed before. What appears on most of the gelled soaps after soaking in water? So-called glycerin rivers.

 

[newbie]

His conclusion is that the water absorbing properties of gelled versus ungelled soaps is subtle. To me that means that the differences are not great. Wouldn't that means that ungelled soap is not much different in its solubility than gelled and unlikely to have a significantly different "life", as it were? Also, in this excerpt, he doesn't state how they are different, just that they are.

"• Gelled soap is neither better nor worse than non-gelled soap,
but it is subtly different in its water-absorbing properties."

Based on the looks of the soaked soaps, I thought the soap cracked when it was swollen up with water. It does look some like glycerin rivers but I thought they were really just fractures from swelling.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I personally noticed this effect in my Castile soap. If you let the soap sit in water and swell (I gel all of my castiles) they will show that mottling/cracking. It's really neat in a Castile since the oleic content is so high, it literally turns to gel in those areas. However, the spots (that I'm guessing are higher in stearic acids) are hard, opaque and don't lather well at all. You can actually feel it by running your fingers over it. And it does look just like glycerin rivers (this confirms for me that glycerin rivers have nothing to do with actual glycerin [as others have said!]).

If you'd like me to get you a picture of it, my BF has a bit of a Castile bar left in the shower that is whittling away to almost nothing! I'd have to soak it overnight to show you what I mean but you'd be able to see it.

 

[nframe]

And if you're open to an experiment with some of the powdery-crumbly-opaque soap you've already made, try this -- Warm the oven to about 170 deg F. Put your soap back into its mold, even if it's already been cut into bars. You don't need to put the whole batch in the mold -- just try a few bars so you aren't risking a lot if things don't turn out well. Pop the soap into the oven for about an hour or so -- long enough to warm through. Pull the soap out of the mold and let it cool.

See if that changes the appearance and texture to the firm, waxy, translucent look that you (and I) like. I've tried this twice now and what I've seen with my soap is it doesn't go into gel -- it doesn't get soft and vaseline-y. The bars stay completely intact as if the soap hadn't been heated at all. But this "after the fact CPOP" method seems to alter the structure of the soap slightly just as if it did gel. No guarantees on this, but it might be worth a try with a few bars and see what you think.

Hope this helps!

Oh DeeAnna! What a mine of information you are and what would I do without you?

I had a soap that fitted your description - powdery and crumbly. I reckon that it had not gelled properly. I normally CPOP all my soaps but this one was different. I had made some buttons out of M&P and used them to decorate the top of the soap. I was afraid that the M&P might melt if I put the soap in the oven so I covered the mould with towels. I obviously did not insulate it well enough and the soap was all powdery. So, I tried your tip and put the soap back in its mould, in the oven for about an hour. I have just looked at it and it is like a different soap altogether. It feels just fine, like all the other soaps that have been CPOPed.

Thank you for this valuable tip. I think that you should put it in the tip file that you have created. It works so well. Thanks again. You are a soap-saver!

 

[DeeAnna]

Nframe -- I'm very glad to hear this idea worked for you -- made my day!

I've only tried this twice so far, so I have been sharing this as a "try it at your own risk" idea, not a "it definitely works" technique. I appreciate hearing you got similar results to mine -- that gives me confidence the idea has value. Yes, I will add this to the "Geek Tips" thread -- thanks for the suggestion.

Did the M&P decorations stay okay too or did they soften and deform?

...I tried your tip and put the soap back in its mould, in the oven for about an hour. I have just looked at it and it is like a different soap altogether. It feels just fine, like all the other soaps that have been CPOPed....

 

[nframe]

Did the M&P decorations stay okay too or did they soften and deform?

The M&P decorations stayed the same and kept their shape so I suppose that next time I can CPOP with them on! Although the heat from the saponification might be higher than this one. The only way to know is to try...

 

[lenarenee]

One more

Curious what kind of soap you were making where you wanted embeds like that...? Your embeds are really cool - like artic icebergs!!

 

[newbie]

Hit the nail on the head! The embeds were as arctic icebergs. Sea ice is extremely beautiful and delicately colored- very difficult to try to capture. Unfortunately, one of the embeds went in crooked so it looked stupid and the other I got in straight but I unwisely did not rough up the bottom edge. Such a straight line looked unnatural. So it goes!

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I think soaps are most attractive when they "glow" a little around the edges in sunlight and have a smooth, slightly eggshell finish.

Your comments reminded me of some old photos.

These soaps were made at the beginning of 2008.

 

[ngian]

These soaps were made at the beginning of 2008.

Do these soaps have specific fatty acids, or it is for the gel phase that might gave this translucent property?

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Do these soaps have specific fatty acids, or it is for the gel phase that might gave this translucent property?

Gel is probably a basic requirement, but I think the recipe was involved here. At the time, I made a whole series of soaps in quick succession to try a lot of recipe variations. These were the only two that used this particular recipe and came out exceptionally translucent.

These two batches used an unusually high amount of lauric oil. I didn't care for it too much. But maybe the lauric oil plus the castor? Maybe a little of everything.

Coconut 15%
PKO flake 15%
Babassu 5%
Lard 25%
Cocoa butter 5%
Sunflower HO 27.5%
Castor 7.5%