How much ground oatmeal, how much colloidal oats, what lye concentration?

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I just love your science lessons, @Mobjack Bay! 😍 Your reward is more questions 😂

So, is the small particle size the reason that colloidal oats don’t feel scratchy, or the suspension, or both?
We're talking about particles the size of bacteria. They're not going to feel scratchy in or out of suspension. 🙂
 
Or it might be that the seller wanted to keep costs low by using home-ground oats. 😉
What I meant to point out is that even when a merchant is selling a bar with colloidal oats as an ingredient, they seem to sprinkle on a few oat pieces- in the way that we might sprinkle lavender or rose petals on soap- just for the look of it.

I was actually just looking at more "colloidal oat" soap bars on the internet. I looked at the actual ingredients. These 3 pictured soaps say have the words "colloidal oat" "colloidal oatmeal" "collloidal oats" is prominently in the soap name. The ingredients in two soaps say "colloidal oatmeal". However, I see good sized specs or pieces of oatmeal in the bars. The third lists in its ingredients " avena sativa "kernal & Flour." I see big specs or pieces of oatmeal.
Only a few of the soaps I saw on the internet that said they had "colloidal oats" had no specs and no oatmeal pieces.
So, do you think those (including those pictured) have colloidal oats?
Do you think they left off that their bars also have ground oats?

If the bars don't have true colloidal oats, do you think the merchant is ignorant?
Or do you think they are counting on consumer ignorance?

I just make soap as a hobby and i give it away. But, if I were making soap for a living, I would be very bothered by the marketing/ advertising of an ingredient that may not actually be in the bar.

I think I'd like to find someone that really has problem skin to test my soap with colloidal oats v. ground oatmeal. I will now get off my new potential "soap box."
 

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I am too!! I rebound my oats into a finer powder, with no bits visible and made some soap. Now I’m waiting on my order of colloidal oats to compare. I don’t have sisters but I do have sons. Let’s see whose the more discerning 🤔
@ewhitake , my younger son (32 yrs old) is generous and very specific in his feedback about how a particular soap feels or what it does "not alot of suds" "disappeared kind of fast " etc. He has unusually dry skin and since I've started making soap, he no longer buys regular commercial bars. Unfortunately, he lives abroad most of the time, so, I don't have the benefit of his feedback as much. My older son (34 yrs old) , likes exfoliants in soap, but other than that, I can't get a word out of him. I have a sister who I'm sure would give the highest score to any soap with a dog embed. So, you never know who will be discerning!!
 
I've found it confusing that the INCI for colloidal oats is the same as for oat flour (Avena Sativa (oat) kernel flour), but also that some internet sites say the the INCI is "Colloidal oatmeal"!? I really like LisaLise's post on the subject, which she just updated last year. Here's a snippet and link:
... [a] discussion with some colleagues about the production process for making colloidal oatmeal...started this whole thing. Some of the participants were convinced colloidal oatmeal could only be produced via a process that entails boiling the grains in water, drying, and subsequent filtering. Others were convinced making colloidal oatmeal was merely a matter of grinding/milling oats to a certain particle size.

Spoiler alert: Everyone was right.

LisaLise on colloidal oatmeal, 2023 update
 
I would love to read about the results of your testings when they'll be done ;)
I like oats in my soap, but I haven't tried colloidal oats yet. I did buy it, but haven't got the time to soap lately.
 
@ewhitake , my younger son (32 yrs old) is generous and very specific in his feedback about how a particular soap feels or what it does "not alot of suds" "disappeared kind of fast " etc. He has unusually dry skin and since I've started making soap, he no longer buys regular commercial bars. Unfortunately, he lives abroad most of the time, so, I don't have the benefit of his feedback as much. My older son (34 yrs old) , likes exfoliants in soap, but other than that, I can't get a word out of him. I have a sister who I'm sure would give the highest score to any soap with a dog embed. So, you never know who will be discerning!!
I think we have the same kids!! I started making lotions for my Sensitive Son. My Picky son was next and then he wanted soap and asked if I could make some like a maker he likes. Picky son is very specific in his feedback. Sensitive Son just wants it to work. I've got to pull the specifics out of him. Eldest Son...well, I've just sent soaps to him. He's a "that's good, that's not so good" kind of reviewer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I've found it confusing that the INCI for colloidal oats is the same as for oat flour (Avena Sativa (oat) kernel flour), but also that some internet sites say the the INCI is "Colloidal oatmeal"!? I really like LisaLise's post on the subject, which she just updated last year. Here's a snippet and link:


LisaLise on colloidal oatmeal, 2023 update
Tomato, Tomato (with a British accent?)
 
I have sons like yours. My younger, he totally gave up on my soaps. Likes the pretty fragrances & consistent bubbles he gets from shower gels. He works in the utilities sector which means lots of dirt & bentonite clay, so I get it. My soaps don't make much satisfying lather overall, nor can I afford the kinds of fragrances he likes, nor can he finance them.
My older son LOVES my soaps. Requests them every time he's low on any specific kind he asks for, & luckily, is VERY specific about what he likes/doesn't like. So I get to make salt bars, Bastille bars, even shave bars for himself & some of his friends that have gone feral (😂🧼, as they call themselves). I experiment on some bars w/ scents I send him, & he comments, bcs sometimes he "thinks" he wants a certain scent combo from trying it from a commercial product. Then it's something completely different when I make it from an essential oil, in different proportions, & I have to explain top, middle, & bottom notes, etc.
Anyways, sorry I'm rambling. I'm in my ADHD mode. Need a nap despite having had my coffee. 🥹
What I was getting at, is that I often grind up the sifted flowers ONLY of the chamomile infusion I make for my chamomile/honey soaps, or further grind my dried, spent coffee grounds for my cappuccino or mocha soaps for him. He likes the exfoliation bcs he has oily skin, & he likes the feeling of getting sweaty when he works out. So my 4 oz soaps w/ some kind of grittiness is right up his alley. I use the Bullet grinder to blend into oblivion the old fashioned oats for his Bastille soaps, & use ½ Tbsp p/ 1 lb oil bcs here in WI is where I'm usually making soap & the humidity is @ 50% avg. I cure the soaps a minimum of 2 mos, because he keeps them in his house. It's a temp/humidity controlled one for reasons, & I KNOW he can't resist to start using at least something from a batch. So I make sure everything's okay to go. He doesn't share very well w/ others unless I make him, except for the shave bars. So I make enough for at least a yr for HIM, & dbl the recipes to make sure certain others get some too.
I hope this helps someone to get an idea of how/why sometimes you might not see how an ingredient "disappears" in a soap, though it's on a label.Those chamomile-honey soaps smell like butterscotch, I've been told, & you can't see the chamomile flowers, but you can see tiny specks of yellowish tan. That's it. And it doesn't lessen inflammation, or clear up your skin of anything, but I know it exfoliates very gently bcs I use it on my skin that suffers badly from eczema. I also don't bathe but 1 or 2x a week.
Like it's been said here in this forum repeatedly, soap is a wash off product. Nothing you add will stay on your skin, except maybe the glycerine that's a byproduct of the saponification process all soap goes through.
🩷 your 🧼!!
 
I'd like to make some soap to compare how finely ground oatmeal might feel in comparison to colloidal oats.
But, it has to be cured (or reasonably cured) by August 9 -- because I am getting together with my sisters and I want them to help me compare.
I know that is cutting it pretty close. But, I'm thinking if I use a little less water, it will cure faster. Recently, I made a batch and it's possible that the combination of FO and oatmeal caused pretty rapid acceleration and a bar that was a little crumbly. I can't say for sure it was the oatmeal.

But, I'm wondering how much ground oatmeal for a 5 oz bar, and how much colloidal oats for a 5 oz bar?
What would be a good lye concentration if the recipe is 24% tallow, 15% lard, 20% coconut, 29% olive oil, 8% castor oil, and 4% Shea butter?
I will use 4% FO concentration of an FO I know to be well behaved. The batch will have goatmilk powder, too.

I could also make a slightly bigger batch so that I can set aside 400 grams of batter for my experiment if that makes it easier to give guidance. So, 200 grams could be for the colloidal oats and 200 grams could be for the finely ground oatmeal.

Other than using less water, and knowing that castile soap takes a longer time to cure as it is mostly OO, I haven't really thought about whether my recipe (or its minor variations) are fast curing or slow curing. Does anyone have any suggestions for my comparison soaps that need to be done by August 9?
do hot process and be done same day
 
do hot process and be done same day
Yes, hot processed soap is safe to be used right away, but to be ideal, it should still cure just as long, and sometimes longer, than cold process, due to a higher water amount used.

Water evaporates during cure, which makes the bar last longer instead of melting away quickly in use. The soap also becomes milder over the cure time, and the lather improves.

And for what it is worth, CP soaps are typically safe to use within 48-72 hours, but again, curing makes a huge difference in quality.
 
I've found it confusing that the INCI for colloidal oats is the same as for oat flour (Avena Sativa (oat) kernel flour), but also that some internet sites say the the INCI is "Colloidal oatmeal"!? I really like LisaLise's post on the subject, which she just updated last year. Here's a snippet and link:

LisaLise on colloidal oatmeal, 2023 update
@A-Polly, that's a really good article. LisaLise did alot of research to be able to address this thorny subject. I feel bad that I prematurely judged some of these soapmakers. As @ewhitake says: Tomato, Tomato (with a British accent.)
Tomato, Tomato (with a British accent?)
@ewhitake, agreed!!
 
Some people even add whole oats inside the soap, but it's more difficult for them to dry after all the water they soak - so it's not that popular and probably rightfully so. But oat flour is fine if you blend it in properly
 
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