How many different oils do you use in your soap?

[dibbles]

I used sheep for the tallow and it has higher cleansing and conditioning than beef according to soapcalc.

I have seen you make this statement a few times. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the term 'cleansing' in Soapcalc. All soap has the ability to clean, even with a cleansing value of 0. Cleansing in Soapcalc can be equated to how stripping of the natural oils on the skin a soap is. A lower cleansing number = a more gentle soap. Also, the conditioning value for beef tallow is 40 and for sheep tallow is 31. So IMO beef tallow is a better choice.

You might find this interesting Soapcalc numbers | Soapy Stuff

 

[HoliHealerz]

I have seen you make this statement a few times. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the term 'cleansing' in Soapcalc. All soap has the ability to clean, even with a cleansing value of 0. Cleansing in Soapcalc can be equated to how stripping of the natural oils on the skin a soap is. A lower cleansing number = a more gentle soap. Also, the conditioning value for beef tallow is 40 and for sheep tallow is 31. So IMO beef tallow is a better choice.

You might find this interesting Soapcalc numbers | Soapy Stuff

I have seen you make this statement a few times. I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of the term 'cleansing' in Soapcalc. All soap has the ability to clean, even with a cleansing value of 0. Cleansing in Soapcalc can be equated to how stripping of the natural oils on the skin a soap is. A lower cleansing number = a more gentle soap. Also, the conditioning value for beef tallow is 40 and for sheep tallow is 31. So IMO beef tallow is a better choice.

You might find this interesting Soapcalc numbers | Soapy Stuff

So in other words we should aim at an oil that has the lower cleansing number unless we are a gardener or mechanic or just filthy? and highest conditioning?
So camel (carrot seed on soap calc) literally has a zero. So I don't need to add coconut oil and sheep tallow for it to be cleansing for daily use? Ok in that case why are we 'told' that we shouldnt use canola or safflower or was it sunflower or maybe all (alone) because the cleansing is zero and they don't clean well (or at all).
For me that would be great to use beef because its so much cheaper than sheep because people here prefer the meat of sheep (better quality on the whole).

Could gentle cleanser be another word for low cleansing ability?
Some of what you said does make sense because I have been thinking of cutting my coconut oil out or down to 5% its just too dry above that. In fact even before I ever used coconut oil I plugged it in and came up with a 5% safe use and didnt listen to my own calculations. Experience taught me that I was right. Besides if we use tallow, coconut oil sort of covers the beautiful effects of the tallow which was awesome alone. But I still wondered about the 14 number.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Keep in mind, the numbers on SoapCalc are meant to be "guidelines" for designing your own formulas. It is only through trial and error that you find the formula that works best for you and possibly for others you intend to share your soap with.

 

[HoliHealerz]

Keep in mind, the numbers on SoapCalc are meant to be "guidelines" for designing your own formulas. It is only through trial and error that you find the formula that works best for you and possibly for others you intend to share your soap with.

Yeah, still trying to get my head around that concept.

Keep in mind, the numbers on SoapCalc are meant to be "guidelines" for designing your own formulas. It is only through trial and error that you find the formula that works best for you and possibly for others you intend to share your soap with.

I suppose that human nature is that we want to rely on numbers. When we can't it brings up complexes.

 

[dibbles]

we should aim at an oil that has the lower cleansing number

That is personal preference. I often make soaps with a cleansing number of 15-17 and it is fine for me. Other people would find that to be too drying.

why are we 'told' that we shouldnt use canola or safflower or was it sunflower or maybe all (alone) because the cleansing is zero and they don't clean well (or at all).

I don't know where you heard this. 100% olive oil soap is used by many who love it, and it has a 'cleansing' value of 0. All soap has the ability to clean. Again, equate 'cleansing' in soap.calc speak to 'stripping' rather than the ability to remove dirt from your skin. I think there are reasons that most 100% oil recipes don't make great soap, but the ability to clean isn't one of them.

In fact even before I ever used coconut oil I plugged it in and came up with a 5% safe use

I don't quite understand what you are saying here. Lots of people make 100% coconut oil soap and it is safe to use.

I think starting a new thread would be best if you still have questions. We're getting off topic here.

 

[Steve85569]

I am stuck on 4 or 5 oils. Long shelf life and easy for me.
That and we like the soap in my family. Good lather and not too oil stripping on my old skin.
Shea, Coconut, Lard, Castor and soy wax.
Most times a touch of sodium citrate and sodium acetate just for fun.

 

[peacefulheart]

There's old engineering mantra that says something like "the more complicated something is, the more that can go wrong" and that can also apply to practically anything, like a large variety of oils you always use for soap. What if one of them isout of stock, you don't realize it's gone bad, the source you buy one of your oils from is getting their oils from somewhere else and you notice a difference in quality, etc. More of a variety of oils = more bad things that could happen.
I know the simple 30/30/30/10 recipe from brambleberry seems to be used almost universally, and I wanted something a little more complex than that - but it occurred to me that that may not be a great idea for the reasons above. I was looking at something with 7 different oils, which seems insane, but I figured I might ask to see if anyone else uses more than 3, 4, or even 5 oils on a regular basis.

I use 13

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Ok in that case why are we 'told' that we shouldnt use canola or safflower or was it sunflower or maybe all (alone) because the cleansing is zero and they don't clean well (or at all).

Canola and sunflower oils make fabulous liquid soaps, and they have their place in bar soap recipes too. I hereby officially give you the permission to use these oils.

BTW, who “told” you that carrot seed oil is a viable replacement of camel tallow? It is not difficult to find out that it isn't. By far. Carrot seed oil is listed by soap calculators with K-SAP=0.144, which is 30% lower than the actual value of K-SAP=202.3 per the above source. When you use this value, you are producing soap that has a staggering 30% superfat. No wonder that you are disappointed with your soaps, all their cleansing power is already occupied by unreacted fat.

“Scientific thinking” does not end with numbers, it starts there. Please be more skeptical.

 

[HoliHealerz]

Canola and sunflower oils make fabulous liquid soaps, and they have their place in bar soap recipes too. I hereby officially give you the permission to use these oils.

BTW, who “told” you that carrot seed oil is a viable replacement of camel tallow? It is not difficult to find out that it isn't. By far. Carrot seed oil is listed by soap calculators with K-SAP=0.144, which is 30% lower than the actual value of K-SAP=202.3 per the above source. When you use this value, you are producing soap that has a staggering 30% superfat. No wonder that you are disappointed with your soaps, all their cleansing power is already occupied by unreacted fat.

“Scientific thinking” does not end with numbers, it starts there. Please be more skeptical.

Thank you so much for your explanation about the sunflower and saflower oils. Very useful but I was actually referring to bar soap rather than liquid. But still its a useful fact to know.

Actually, it was on here I will try to find the place where it was written by a member. But then if its not carrot seed oil how can I find out what to use on a soap calc and the other ladies using camel were also using carrot seed oil. Where did I say that I was disapppointed with any of my soaps, its better not to add to what I say.
Scientific thinking begins with numbers? No, I would not agree that it begins OR ends with numbers but numbers MUST be reliable. It begins with observation through the senses and ends with understanding and experiential knowledge.

That is personal preference. I often make soaps with a cleansing number of 15-17 and it is fine for me. Other people would find that to be too drying.

I don't know where you heard this. 100% olive oil soap is used by many who love it, and it has a 'cleansing' value of 0. All soap has the ability to clean. Again, equate 'cleansing' in soap.calc speak to 'stripping' rather than the ability to remove dirt from your skin. I think there are reasons that most 100% oil recipes don't make great soap, but the ability to clean isn't one of them.

I don't quite understand what you are saying here. Lots of people make 100% coconut oil soap and it is safe to use.

Some use a superfat of 25% though which they say overcomes the drying factor

I think starting a new thread would be best if you still have questions. We're getting off topic here.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Actually, it was on here I will try to find the place where it was written by a member.

Then it's easy! Just ask said member, why they think that carrot seed oil (30% lower SAP, off by a factor 9 with longevity number (palmitic, stearic), and missing all of the appeciable 9% myristic acid) is anywhere close to camel fat. There are MANY oils that are MUCH closer to this FA profile. If you have got an oil that isn't “canonical”, it's your duty to find how to work with it, by proper research, not just random hearsay. SMF is not magically safe from stupid mistakes. Please be more skeptical.

 

[HoliHealerz]

Then it's easy! Just ask said member, why they think that carrot seed oil (30% lower SAP, off by a factor 9 with longevity number (palmitic, stearic), and missing all of the appeciable 9% myristic acid) is anywhere close to camel fat. There are MANY oils that are MUCH closer to this FA profile. If you have got an oil that isn't “canonical”, it's your duty to find how to work with it, by proper research, not just random hearsay. SMF is not magically safe from stupid mistakes. Please be more skeptical.

I posted the thread.
I actually looked around a lot to find my answers about camel fat but since most of the posters are in places where camel oil is expensive, there is little or no information. I will habe to make a 100% camel oil and test myself. However, I recently came across an article about a German back packer in Australia who made camel fat soap because they had a lot of fat from the poor camels that had to be 'shot' if I remember correctly, in the outbacks. It won a soap competition. But she used a % of coconut oil with it. I have not been in soaping very long and covered many grounds in that very short time so time is what I need. There is another man in UAE who makes soap and cream with camel fat but said there was a secret tomrendering.the fat and I dont know if his soaps are 100% camel. I do render my own and it comes out perfect so I dont now what secret he had. But I will keep trying and all these criticisms on here or matter of fact responses only help me. Thank you everyone.

 

[Hope Ann]

I use 4-5. Same basic recipe, just sometimes I substitute shortening for lard, and it has two ingredients rather than just one. I have had as many as twelve oils in one recipe until I actually started testing soaps for what I and my family enjoyed. Now I just keep it simple:

65% lard, tallow, palm, or shortening that contain palm and tallow
15% olive oil
15% coconut oil
5% castor oil

And I'm betting that makes a creamy lather that feels lovely after the bath.

Hope

 

[Susie]

It does. and it is very kind to my eczema prone skin.

 

[cmzaha]

Then it's easy! Just ask said member, why they think that carrot seed oil (30% lower SAP, off by a factor 9 with longevity number (palmitic, stearic), and missing all of the appeciable 9% myristic acid) is anywhere close to camel fat. There are MANY oils that are MUCH closer to this FA profile. If you have got an oil that isn't “canonical”, it's your duty to find how to work with it, by proper research, not just random hearsay. SMF is not magically safe from stupid mistakes. Please be more skeptical.

In case any one reads this comment about using the carrot oil sap value I am the "said", member. I did a lot of research for sap values for camel fat when none were readily available. The paper I found on it gave a sap value that was very close carrot seed oil. I was adding a line of Camel milk soaps which I made and sold for about 3 yrs using the carrot sap with a 2% superfat.

I am aware this poster is not available at this time. I have only replied to clear up the question and assure the sap does work, at least for the camel fat I purchased.