What can I do to my hot process to help it look more like cold process?? lol. I did some but it is really gloopy and chunked looking. I like it but am looking for some variety, is there anything I can do to smooth it out a little?
Hot process help
- Thread starter pixie1115
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pixie1115 said:
hmm, i put it in a log mold and bang it hard on floor, to get bubbles out, and my bars arent real smooth, but look good, you can try some pretty heart or round plastic molds, you have to shave off bottom after its cooled.
mamaT
Well-Known Member
When I do HP, I put into my log mold and put plastic wrap over the top and take small wooden block to press it into the mold and kinda smooth out the top, sometimes this takes alot of pressure. When I unmold and cut if the top is still alittle rough I trim it off.
topcat
Well-Known Member
Now I haven't done this, I only do CP, but I did read that adding some sodium lactate to your lye water will help with the fluidity of the batter and make for a smoother pour. Amounts given seem to be 3% ppo which works out to be about 1 Tbsp of the liquid SL. If Irishlass sees this post she may chime in here, or you could PM her, as I am sure she uses it with great success. HTH!
Tanya
Tanya
topcat
Well-Known Member
ppo = per pound of oils :wink:
SL is also used as a hardening agent for CP soap - I have used it in CP and it works well....perhaps it also helps harden HP?
Tanya
SL is also used as a hardening agent for CP soap - I have used it in CP and it works well....perhaps it also helps harden HP?
Tanya
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
You can also try working at a higher temp. This depends on what temp you are working with now, and if you oven or crock pot.....
but if you oven HP, I would suggest trying an oven temp of 100C or 212F to increase the fluidity and the smoothness of the finished soap. (I leave in for an hour)
To get the soap into all nooks and stuff I squish some in the corners and bottom first with a flat piece of wood, then ruff the top a bit as a key for the next layer then add a layer, squish down, rough top, and repeat to the top where I pat flat (with my wood). It's like how you would make a cob house wall, but with soap.
but if you oven HP, I would suggest trying an oven temp of 100C or 212F to increase the fluidity and the smoothness of the finished soap. (I leave in for an hour)
To get the soap into all nooks and stuff I squish some in the corners and bottom first with a flat piece of wood, then ruff the top a bit as a key for the next layer then add a layer, squish down, rough top, and repeat to the top where I pat flat (with my wood). It's like how you would make a cob house wall, but with soap.
topcat said:Now I haven't done this, I only do CP, but I did read that adding some sodium lactate to your lye water will help with the fluidity of the batter and make for a smoother pour. Amounts given seem to be 3% ppo which works out to be about 1 Tbsp of the liquid SL. If Irishlass sees this post she may chime in here, or you could PM her, as I am sure she uses it with great success. HTH!
Tanya
Yes- sodium lactate works in HP like a charm to get things smooth and flowing. Now, I've only done one batch of HP so far, mind you (CP is my true love 8) ), but I did do a lot of reading on all the different HP techniques before jumping in and doing my one batch, and I also had some very good help from a wonderful fellow soaper on another forum who is an HP guru and who gave me some very handy tips. It was because of her that I even got up the courage to try.
Anyway, I did the oven HP method at 170 degreesF using the full MMS water amount, 3% (1 tbsp) ppo of sodium lactate, and 1 tbsp of sugar ppo. When all was said and done, the consistency of my HP soap at pour was much like my regular CP when it reaches a thick but still pourable trace. Although the HP was thick, it poured into my mold so fluidly & smoothly that I did not even need to bang my mold on the counter to get air pockets out. All I had to do was slightly jiggle the mold to even the soap out and that was it. To my utter joy, even the top of my soap looked great.
If I had only stopped there all would have been perfect, but noooo, I just couldn't leave well enough alone. You see, I got a little over-confident and decided to texture the top like I usually do with my CP, but HP sure sets up quick, doesn't it? :shock: To make a long story short, I should've quit while I was ahead, because instead of a nice swirly, frosting-like top, I ended up with funky soap brains for a top.
Lesson learned- leave nice looking HP tops alone! 
Epilogue: After trimming the brainy top off, I couldn't tell the difference between the HP batch and my regular CP batches (no rustic look at all to it). The only thing that gave it away was the initial spongy feel to it, but after 4 weeks cure now, it's as good and hard as my regular CP. I'm very pleased with my HP batch, and with Sodium Lactate in hand, I will definitely do it again sometime soon.
IrishLass
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
That sodium lactate sounds great! I don't suppose it's something that you can get at a store (did you order it online?)?
I suppose the only thing I can see about the method, it that you had to wait 4 weeks because of all the water. Could you get the same results by just doing CP in the same amount of time? Or do a discounted water CP and get the same results in 2 weeks?
To me, it seams that the benefit of HP is having soap that is ready to go in about a week (with discounted water), so if the HP contains a lot of water and it takes 4 weeks to harden, then the soap might as well had been discounted water CP and been done sooner, with the smooth look of CP. For me, soaps with a lot of water have tended to warp and shrink a lot too, so I always so discounted water now.
Sodium lactate is a great idea for the fluidity! I think I will have to add this to my wish list :wink:
I don't suppose it's something that you can get at a store (did you order it online?)?I suppose the only thing I can see about the method, it that you had to wait 4 weeks because of all the water. Could you get the same results by just doing CP in the same amount of time? Or do a discounted water CP and get the same results in 2 weeks?
To me, it seams that the benefit of HP is having soap that is ready to go in about a week (with discounted water), so if the HP contains a lot of water and it takes 4 weeks to harden, then the soap might as well had been discounted water CP and been done sooner, with the smooth look of CP. For me, soaps with a lot of water have tended to warp and shrink a lot too, so I always so discounted water now.
Sodium lactate is a great idea for the fluidity! I think I will have to add this to my wish list :wink:
topcat
Well-Known Member
Kaseen, I get my SL from Heirloom Body Care:-
http://www.heirloombodycare.com.au/sodi ... p-656.html
Tanya
http://www.heirloombodycare.com.au/sodi ... p-656.html
Tanya
kellistarr
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I suppose the only thing I can see about the method, it that you had to wait 4 weeks because of all the water. Could you get the same results by just doing CP in the same amount of time? Or do a discounted water CP and get the same results in 2 weeks?
I think this is a misconception about HP. As far as handling a bar of soap, both HP and CP are ready to go. HP still needs that cure period of about 4 weeks to be at it's best, just like CP. However, I feel more confident that HP has undergone all of it's process and would be more willing to give a bar to someone with a warning of allowing for complete cure. If they cheat, I know that the worse that will happen is that they aren't going to get a mild and lathering soap.
To me, it seams that the benefit of HP is having soap that is ready to go in about a week (with discounted water), so if the HP contains a lot of water and it takes 4 weeks to harden, then the soap might as well had been discounted water CP and been done sooner, with the smooth look of CP. For me, soaps with a lot of water have tended to warp and shrink a lot too, so I always so discounted water now.
An HP benefit for me is that I add my EO/FO after the cook and my soap keeps the scent. When I go back to sniff a few months later, the soap hasn't lost its scent. When I add the scent after the cook, I don't need to add as much. Another benefit is that all my soaps go through a full gel. So, I don't have the partial gel worries. Discounted water CP soap is only a good option for those who know what they are doing. It is not a method that I would suggest just to get a fast cure. In essence, there is no fast cure.
Sodium lactate is a great idea for the fluidity! I think I will have to add this to my wish list :wink:[/quote]
I find that fluidity comes with the experience of working with HP soap. Each time you do it, you get better. I love both methods; but have been doing a lot of HP because I really enjoy prolonging the process of my soapmaking and watching it go through its process. I've read about people using sodium lactate, I don't find it necessary at all. My HP is quite smooth. Keep doing it and keep learning. I love to read others tips on how to improve HP and I am very pleased with the results of this method.
I think this is a misconception about HP. As far as handling a bar of soap, both HP and CP are ready to go. HP still needs that cure period of about 4 weeks to be at it's best, just like CP. However, I feel more confident that HP has undergone all of it's process and would be more willing to give a bar to someone with a warning of allowing for complete cure. If they cheat, I know that the worse that will happen is that they aren't going to get a mild and lathering soap.
To me, it seams that the benefit of HP is having soap that is ready to go in about a week (with discounted water), so if the HP contains a lot of water and it takes 4 weeks to harden, then the soap might as well had been discounted water CP and been done sooner, with the smooth look of CP. For me, soaps with a lot of water have tended to warp and shrink a lot too, so I always so discounted water now.
An HP benefit for me is that I add my EO/FO after the cook and my soap keeps the scent. When I go back to sniff a few months later, the soap hasn't lost its scent. When I add the scent after the cook, I don't need to add as much. Another benefit is that all my soaps go through a full gel. So, I don't have the partial gel worries. Discounted water CP soap is only a good option for those who know what they are doing. It is not a method that I would suggest just to get a fast cure. In essence, there is no fast cure.
Sodium lactate is a great idea for the fluidity! I think I will have to add this to my wish list :wink:[/quote]
I find that fluidity comes with the experience of working with HP soap. Each time you do it, you get better. I love both methods; but have been doing a lot of HP because I really enjoy prolonging the process of my soapmaking and watching it go through its process. I've read about people using sodium lactate, I don't find it necessary at all. My HP is quite smooth. Keep doing it and keep learning. I love to read others tips on how to improve HP and I am very pleased with the results of this method.
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link TopCat
My HP soap is very hard after about a week, and doesn't change much after that, so to me, with discounted water, this is a great benefit.
I think that everyone has their own beliefs as to what is an acceptable period of time to wait for their soap to cure/dry depending on the lye/water concentration and oils used in their particular recipe.
But the question was about getting HP to look like CP, so to me it sounds like they want soap that is dried and ready faster than CP, like HP, but looks like CP. So if you had to add a ton of water to your HP to make it look CP, and have to wait 4 weeks, it might as well have been CP to get the CP look.
I agree, being able to add the nutrients to the soap after cook is a great benefit of HP, especially with organic substances that might brown or smell in a lye heavy soap.
Indeed we all have our methods for making smoother HP, I like to use a high heat to keep the soap fluid and cohesive.
My HP soap is very hard after about a week, and doesn't change much after that, so to me, with discounted water, this is a great benefit.
I think that everyone has their own beliefs as to what is an acceptable period of time to wait for their soap to cure/dry depending on the lye/water concentration and oils used in their particular recipe.
But the question was about getting HP to look like CP, so to me it sounds like they want soap that is dried and ready faster than CP, like HP, but looks like CP. So if you had to add a ton of water to your HP to make it look CP, and have to wait 4 weeks, it might as well have been CP to get the CP look.
I agree, being able to add the nutrients to the soap after cook is a great benefit of HP, especially with organic substances that might brown or smell in a lye heavy soap.
Indeed we all have our methods for making smoother HP, I like to use a high heat to keep the soap fluid and cohesive.
ewenique
Well-Known Member
What about CPOP? Isn't that similar to CP & HP, only the soap is forced to gel in the warm oven.
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
Yea! CPHP is a great idea!
I did some CPHP last week and it was VERY smooth. The only thing was that my neutrients got a very slight cooked smell (oat flour, lavender and poppy seeds - stuff I normally add after cook), but the finished product overall smells nice and very smooth.
Also, if you have a wooden mould be careful not to heat it over 50C or 120F or the wood MAY become warped - although it will shrink back, the strain of the warp may break some joins, crack the wood, and reduce the life of the mould. I tried my pine moulds at 50C and they were fine, 75C or 170F and they warped (but shrunk back in 24 hours). I think pine starts to become flexible at about 180F. Hard wood may take higher temps, just thought I would share that though.
I did some CPHP last week and it was VERY smooth. The only thing was that my neutrients got a very slight cooked smell (oat flour, lavender and poppy seeds - stuff I normally add after cook), but the finished product overall smells nice and very smooth.
Also, if you have a wooden mould be careful not to heat it over 50C or 120F or the wood MAY become warped - although it will shrink back, the strain of the warp may break some joins, crack the wood, and reduce the life of the mould. I tried my pine moulds at 50C and they were fine, 75C or 170F and they warped (but shrunk back in 24 hours). I think pine starts to become flexible at about 180F. Hard wood may take higher temps, just thought I would share that though.
kellistarr
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kaseencook said:Yea! CPHP is a great idea!
That is a great idea and one I hadn't thought of. So, in doing this, I 'd stick my mold into the oven just until gel? Is this correct? KC, when doing this method does your soap still have the same hardened effect as HP in the same amount of time?
pixie1115 said:
what are you using for recipe? my fav is coc, olive and palm with small amt of castor, today i did canola, olive and coconut, it was very thick, chunky and hard to stir, not too smooth looking, back to old recipe for me! I like hp cause i can give it away with a wk, it does look more rustic, homemade, if you want smooth, try cp! I like both methods.
kaseencook
Well-Known Member
I put the batter (med trace) into the mould then into the oven at 50C/120F for about an hour and the center had just started to gel, and then I got impatient and turned it up to 75C/170F (which is when my mould warped and one of the joints blew, but I was using a silicone liner, so it was ok) and it completely gelled like done HP in about another 30 minutes.
When it cooled it was hard like HP and very smooth.
I think if I were to do it again I would put it in the oven for 2.5 hours on 50C/120F (for the wooden mould anyway).
When it cooled it was hard like HP and very smooth.
I think if I were to do it again I would put it in the oven for 2.5 hours on 50C/120F (for the wooden mould anyway).
kaseencook said:I put the batter (med trace) into the mould then into the oven at 50C/120F for about an hour and the center had just started to gel, and then I got impatient and turned it up to 75C/170F (which is when my mould warped and one of the joints blew, but I was using a silicone liner, so it was ok) and it completely gelled like done HP in about another 30 minutes.
When it cooled it was hard like HP and very smooth.
I think if I were to do it again I would put it in the oven for 2.5 hours on 50C/120F (for the wooden mould anyway).
cool, ive never done the oven thing!
