Homemade Vanilla Stabilizer?

[AliOop]

Thanks for fixing it. I'm not an expert in what I was attempting to explain, therefore it makes it hard to translate what is in my head, to something understandable on paper. As much as I love math, and I do, I was never any good at it.

I can't say I love math. I'm actually pretty good at math concepts. But I make transposition mistakes ALL.THE.TIME.

What @DeeAnna said helps me a lot: keep the measuring units consistent, whether that is ounces, grams, percentages, or my favorite generic favorite, "parts." So I would say: 3 parts each of thio and metab, to 10 part water.

 

[DeeAnna]

I can usually follow what people mean when they talk about parts, percentages, grams, ounces, furlongs, fathoms, fortnights, etc.. But I've seen many soap makers who have trouble with percentages or parts, but do okay following instructions when amounts are expressed in weights.

Those of us who are more comfortable with the mathy stuff have the skills to convert a weight-based recipe to parts or percentages as seems useful.

Todd is doing a solid, thoughtful job of testing out his Zigs Color Stabilizer formulation. I'm only wanting to help with tidying up the numbers a bit so the info is clear to everyone.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

@DeeAnna I really appreciate it. I am the first to admit that I am not good at mathematics and if it makes it easier to understand my "backwards" numbers, then the more the merry.

Here's my latest test and I feel really confident about the early results. This soap is 24 hours old.

The bottom picture went through full gel and there is no mica in the bottom half of the soap. Just what I used for the swirling.

 

[Jackie Tobey]

@DeeAnna I really appreciate it. I am the first to admit that I am not a good mathemation and if it makes it easier to understand my "backwards" numbers, then the more the merry.

Here's my latest test and I feel really confident about the early results. This soap is 24 hours old.

The bottom picture went through full gel and there is no mica in the bottom half of the soap. Just what I used for the swirling.

Did you use the amounts listed above? 10 oz water 3oz of each of the two products? And then do a 1:1 amount in recipe with FO?

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Did you use the amounts listed above? 10 oz water 3oz of each of the two products? And then do a 1:1 amount in recipe with FO?

Yes I did. It is a little early to claim complete success but I'm very pleased with the results so far.

 

[AliOop]

This looks so promising, Todd! Thank you for all this work, and for keeping us updated as the soap cures.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

Here is the last soap that I tested a week later. It has actually gotten whiter and lost some of the coloring from the FO.

 

[SPowers]

The artcle referencle above calls the product Sodium thiosulfate - what I'm finding is Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate - are they one and the same.

@Todd Ziegler - is this regularly used in clean acquariums? The product seems hard to find but my daughter has a huge acquarium and may have this if it's the same thing.

 

[Todd Ziegler]

The artcle referencle above calls the product Sodium thiosulfate - what I'm finding is Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate - are they one and the same.

@Todd Ziegler - is this regularly used in clean acquariums? The product seems hard to find but my daughter has a huge acquarium and may have this if it's the same thing.

.
From what I have read they are not the same thing. You should be able to find it easily on Amazon or eBay. I bought mine from eBay. But if you are going to buy just one ingredient I would recommend the sodium metabisulfate as the one you buy.

I wwill find a link for the right one.

You can find it in smaller quantities on ebay.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GD5YZC4/ref=cm_sw_r_u_apa_fabc_q7uRFb3RS2KT5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/222157750149
I have bought from the eBay seller without any problem.

 

[AliOop]

@SPowers if you haven’t done so already, I recommend reading the whole thread, or at least from post #67 to the end, to see how and why @Todd Ziegler is recommending the metabisulfate instead of the thiosulfate that was recommended in the original link I posted.

It’s been an interesting experiment, and he’s done a great job documenting everything with pics and descriptions of his recipe.

 

[SPowers]

the Amazon link is for Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate and is not available in any case - and it's incredibly expensive to buy from Amazon.ca . The Etsy seller does not ship to Canada.
I found this one on Etsy for a very good price and even worth it with shipping if it's the right product... would you mind looking at it and advising?https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/856233546/sodium-thiosulphate-crystals-powder?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=Sodium+thiosulfate&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&organic_search_click=1.

 

[AliOop]

the Amazon link is for Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate and is not available in any case - and it's incredibly expensive to buy from Amazon.ca . The Etsy seller does not ship to Canada.
I found this one on Etsy for a very good price and even worth it with shipping if it's the right product... would you mind looking at it and advising?https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/856233546/sodium-thiosulphate-crystals-powder?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=Sodium+thiosulfate&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&organic_search_click=1.

The sodium metabisulfate is the better option. Were you able to find any of that? You can check SaveOnCitiric.com to see if they ship to CA. If not, look for a place that sells beer-making, wine-making, or photography supplies.

 

[SPowers]

thanks... I will do that.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

The sodium metabisulfate is the better option. Were you able to find any of that? You can check SaveOnCitiric.com to see if they ship to CA. If not, look for a place that sells beer-making, wine-making, or photography supplies.

First off, immense props to @Todd Ziegler and everyone else involved in this. Ali, I believe the last solution Todd made actually contained both the sodium metabisulfate and the sodium thiosulfate. I could be wrong but I thought that is what I read in some of the previous posts.

 

[SPowers]

I read the entire thread and it looks like both ingredients are required and mixed @ 3oz each to 10 oz distilled water. I found the sodium metabisulfate on Amazon.ca for a great price and ordered it. I'm still having trouble finding a small quantity of the Sodium thiosulfate -checked SaveOnCitric.com but will cost $50+ to ship a $10 pkg. The Etsy option seems good if indeed it is the right product. Can someone take a look and let me know? TIA
Sodium Thiosulphate Crystals / powder Electro Plating Supply | Etsy

 

[AliOop]

@SPowers yes, that looks like the right stuff.

@SoapDaddy70 yes, that is correct, Todd used both. But as he noted above, if cost is an issue, or you can only find one of the two, then the metabisulfate appears to be the more important ingredient. That's what creates the distinctive acrid smell in the pre-formulated versions sold by soapmaking suppliers.

@Todd Ziegler were you planning to try a metabisulfate-only version to see if the thiosulfate is actually needed or not? No pressure... you've been amazing so far in your dedication to try different formulations and report back to all of us.

 

[SoapDaddy70]

Hate to put a damper on this post as people seem excited about this but how are we to know if the usage of either of these chemicals are safe to use in soap. Obviously they are being used in some fashion by the larger companies that sell VCS's, but home brewing something like this seems a little risky to me. Will the saponification process and the fact that it is diluted in water negate any negative side effects these materials pose to skin exposure? Just playing devils advocate here and also looking for some extra knowledge behind the chemistry involved. I have always been a half empty type of person so I apologize for the negativity but with the litigious society we live I would rather have my soap be brown than get sued.

 

[AliOop]

Hate to put a damper on this post as people seem excited about this but how are we to know if the usage of either of these chemicals are safe to use in soap. Obviously they are being used in some fashion by the larger companies that sell VCS's, but home brewing something like this seems a little risky to me. Will the saponification process and the fact that it is diluted in water negate any negative side effects these materials pose to skin exposure? Just playing devils advocate here and also looking for some extra knowledge behind the chemistry involved. I have always been a half empty type of person so I apologize for the negativity but with the litigious society we live I would rather have my soap be brown than get sued.

Very good question to ask, @SoapDaddy70 !

By looking up the patents and ingredient lists, Todd was able to verify that these ingredients are included in the VCS products that soap suppliers are already selling. These same ingredients are also used in making beer and wine, and for dechlorinating aquariums and pools. While they are generally regarded as safe to use, as @Jersey Girl noted in one of the posts above, the fine, dry powders can be very irritating to eyes, mucous membranes, and lungs. Thus, it is recommended to wear eye protection and a respirator when mixing them into the liquid solution.

 

[Jeboz]

I made up a solution using Todd’s directions. I have a 5% vanillin fo which I used 3 days ago. Am taking daily pics of it and no discolouration on white part of soap yet.
I am interested about the smell - mine has little or no smell unless you just about tip your nose in it. I’ve read about people worrying the bad smell will stay in the finished soap. Why is mine not smelling?
I will post pics after I collect at least a couple of weeks worth - I know the discolouration can take months.

 

[AliOop]

I made up a solution using Todd’s directions. I have a 5% vanillin fo which I used 3 days ago. Am taking daily pics of it and no discolouration on white part of soap yet.
I am interested about the smell - mine has little or no smell unless you just about tip your nose in it. I’ve read about people worrying the bad smell will stay in the finished soap. Why is mine not smelling?
I will post pics after I collect at least a couple of weeks worth - I know the discolouration can take months.

That's great to hear, @Jeboz - thanks for letting us know how it is going. I haven't tried the homemade version yet, so I cannot speak to the smell. I will say that the product I purchased from Bittercreek Candle Supply has a very strong and acrid smell, but everyone assures me that no hint of it remains in the finished soap.