HP Homemade Pears Soap bar

[marclee]

Has anybody successfully made (or even come close to formulating) a bar similar to the famous Pears soap? Specifically, the fragrance? I am well on my way to the transparent soap itself using Catherine Failor's excellent "Transparent Soap making" book and her hot process, but I am at a stand-still as to the scent.

I found an old bar (an original from the 1970's- long before the Unilever reformulation debacle of 2010) on ebay and discovered (from the box lid- photo attached) that the classic version only listed pine rosin, cedar essence and thyme essence for the scent. Today, of course, the bar is filled with synthetic junk and fragrance oils that are not listed (they are not required to). Most people agree that the current formulation performs and smells terrible. Hence my quest for getting as close to the original as I can.

Any tips or hints as to that wonderful, classic smell of Pears transparent soap?

 

[artemis]

I feel like this comes up now and then. Have you tried searching the forum?

I the meantime, here's a thread
Thread 'My Version of Pear's Soap' https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-version-of-pears-soap.43252/

 

[marclee]

I feel like this comes up now and then. Have you tried searching the forum?

I the meantime, here's a thread
Thread 'My Version of Pear's Soap' https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-version-of-pears-soap.43252/

Excellent advice and yes, I searched under "Pears" prior to posting and I did find that post you listed. Unfortunately the fragrance that user tried is not quite right. For example, that user added "Pear essence" but the original soap had nothing to do with Pear smell, other than the name "Pears". There is not much else on that subject.

 

[lsg]

Excellent advice and yes, I searched under "Pears" prior to posting and I did find that post you listed. Unfortunately the fragrance that user tried is not quite right. For example, that user added "Pear essence" but the original soap had nothing to do with Pear smell, other than the name "Pears". There is not much else on that subject.

The original listed ingredients are: Sodium Palmitate, Natural Rosin, Glycerine, Water, Sodium Cocoate, Rosemary Extract, Thyme Extract, Pears Fragrance Essence.

 

[AliOop]

For example, that user added "Pear essence" but the original soap had nothing to do with Pear smell, other than the name "Pears".

Sorry, that's not correct. The original soap used a pear essence fragrance.

 

[marclee]

The original listed ingredients are: Sodium Palmitate, Natural Rosin, Glycerine, Water, Sodium Cocoate, Rosemary Extract, Thyme Extract, Pears Fragrance Essence.

You are correct! And, reading about that "Pears Fragrance Essence" in a cosmetic industry article published in England in 1935, it said this "essence" was Andrew Pears' proprietary formulation of various essential oils including rosemary, thyme, and cedar wood. However there was no indication that pear (the fruit) was part of that blend. Later, when the soap was being manufactured in India, there was a "pears essence" fragrance oil being marketed through Amazon of all places. It contained thyme, rosemary, cinnamon, pine, and cedar, and people said it was fairly close to the actual soap. However it is no longer available. Most people who have tried copying Pears (and there isn't much literature available) have NOT found pear oil in the formulations, and most agree that "pears fragrance essence" referred to Andrew Pears and not the fruit.

However, I defer to you since youve done it. May I ask, was your result pretty close? Did pear work for your fomulation? Have you tried any since your post? (which was quite welcomed, by the way). I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Marc

Sorry, that's not correct. The original soap used a pear essence fragrance.

That seems to be an area of confusion for sure. The soap listed "Pears Fragrance Essence." You'll note it doesn't list "pear fragrance essence" (without the "s"). The distinction in this case is important, and this "essence" was Andrew Pears' proprietary blend of essential oils. Unfortunately whatever was in that blend is not public. There was an article in 1935 that said this proprietary essence contained rosemary, cedar, thyme and pine rosin. No pear (the fruit) was listed. And it makes sense that he was referring to his essence and not the fruit. Pear fruit was not particularly known in 1800s England. But I am searching for anything I can find, and if you know that it contained pear (the fruit) fragrance, then I'd love to document that. I'm open to anything you may know. Ive been digging through this stuff for many months, and I appreciate your comment.

 

[lsg]

You are correct! And, reading about that "Pears Fragrance Essence" in a cosmetic industry article published in England in 1935, it said this "essence" was Andrew Pears' proprietary formulation of various essential oils including rosemary, thyme, and cedar wood. However there was no indication that pear (the fruit) was part of that blend. Later, when the soap was being manufactured in India, there was a "pears essence" fragrance oil being marketed through Amazon of all places. It contained thyme, rosemary, cinnamon, pine, and cedar, and people said it was fairly close to the actual soap. However it is no longer available. Most people who have tried copying Pears (and there isn't much literature available) have NOT found pear oil in the formulations, and most agree that "pears fragrance essence" referred to Andrew Pears and not the fruit.

However, I defer to you since youve done it. May I ask, was your result pretty close? Did pear work for your fomulation? Have you tried any since your post? (which was quite welcomed, by the way). I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Marc

I just made the one batch. I am tempted to make it again, when I have a break from babysitting. The pear worked OK. Since I don't really remember what the original Pears soap smelled like, I just guessed at the FO/EO combination.

 

[Relle]

I remember the smell and it wasn't something that was pleasant ( to me anyway), didn't like it at all.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I remember the smell and it wasn't something that was pleasant ( to me anyway), didn't like it at all.

Oh i remember it and I loved it! Might try a blend to see if I can replicate it. But how on earth can I get a pine rosin smell without actual pine rosin?

 

[marclee]

Oh i remember it and I loved it! Might try a blend to see if I can replicate it. But how on earth can I get a pine rosin smell without actual pine rosin?

You could try pine essential oil. At least it would be close. I'm actually using pine rosin that I ordered from Amazon. You melt it with the stearic acid (it melts at about 160F). Of course it's really only ideal for hot-process soap since rosin will cause almost IMMEDIATE trace, and it goes hard (like unmelted lard) very fast in cold-process soap. I'm doing hot-process.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Does anyone have a guideline for safe usage rates of Thyme essential oil in soap? EO Calc doesn't list it at all.

 

[Arimara]

Does anyone have a guideline for safe usage rates of Thyme essential oil in soap? EO Calc doesn't list it at all.

@KiwiMoose Thyme Essential Oil thread. That was from a few years ago. Camden Grey's Thyme EO Page has some info too.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose Thyme Essential Oil thread. That was from a few years ago. Camden Grey's Thyme EO Page has some info too.

Thank you - that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[KiwiMoose]

OK - I've just ordered some essential oils and I'm going to try this blend to mimic the Pears' fragrance:
35% each Rosemary and Lavender
20% Pine
5% each Cinnamon Leaf and Thyme (I'm using white thyme because my supplier has a warning against red thyme on skin)

I've run it through the EO calc and it's all ok with the exception of the thyme which is not one of the available oils to choose from in EO Calc. I'm guessing using it around the same rate as Cinnamon I should be OK.

Thoughts?

 

[AliOop]

Personally, I would be concerned about blending cinnamon and thyme in those amounts, because the combined percentage of the potential skin irritants contained in each oil will be fairly high. That being said, I am not familiar with white thyme; my references only refer to t. thymol, red thyme, t. linalool, and t. moroccan. The t. linalool is supposed to be the safest for skin application.

Maybe someone with the Tisserand's book can chime in here?

 

[natik]

Today I made Pear's soap with @lsg's recipe. Didn't have a palm oil, so supplemented it with tallow like @lsg have suggested. It turned out great. Was my first HP bar soap try. I ended up melting pine rosin with stearic acid and castor for a little too long. By the time I checked the temp - it was 260F !!! My other oils were 160 and the lye at 110 when I mixed them. Once they have traced - I added rosin mix. The mix curdled and it took about 3-4 min of continuing stick blending to get them together again, but the mix was very fluid and nice to work with. All the rest went the way @lsg described. I was very surprised how liquid the soap was when I was pouring it into the molds. I swear I could have done quick swirling with it. I didn't think it will ever thicken, but I was able to unmold in about 3 hours.
Now, I didn't grow up in US, so have no idea how the original Pear's soap smells. I didn't have any pear FO, so I improvised, just stuck my nose in the pine rosin and then to EO/FO I had on hand. After not so careful consideration, I decided to mix sweet lemon EO, Rosemary EO, Bergamot FO and oak moss EO (that one I bough on a whim after reading how well it anchors the fragrances and never used). So I did a small drop of oak moss, and then 30% Sweet Lemon, 20% Rosemary, 50% Bergamot. Did it at 2% of total oils. I must say, this is probably the best blend I have ever came up with. It mixed really well with the pine rosin. In fact, I don't really smell pine rosin any more, it smells like wild honey. Love it.

I loved it so much, that I went ahead, changed NaOH to KOH, put 0% superfat and did a liquid soap. Did the same process, the rosin mix was around 300F this time (I am really bad at keeping an eye on the microwave). It went without a hitch as well. I added glycerin and stick blended it. 8 hours later, the soap is cool and it is as thick as a liquid honey. The color is dark amber. Just like honey, it is not murky, but also not see through. It is too thick for the pump bottle, so will need to dilute it tomorrow.

The feel on hands - couldn't be better. Hands after the washing feel like I just used moisturizer.
With the face - the skin still felt somewhat tight after washing the face with it.

 

[DeeAnna]

Please be careful when working with ingredients at high temps. You'll be safer if you let the temps of your ingredients cool below the boiling point of water before combining the ingredients.

Under the right conditions with high temp ingredients, the lye solution can instantly turn into vapor when the ingredients are first combined. Because any water-based liquid will fall underneath the fat layer, the hot expanding water vapor can spray hot fat and caustic lye solution into your face.

It doesn't happen often, but it happens

 

[natik]

Please be careful when working with ingredients at high temps. You'll be safer if you let the temps of your ingredients cool below the boiling point of water before combining the ingredients.

Under the right conditions with high temp ingredients, the lye solution can instantly turn into vapor when the ingredients are first combined. Because any water-based liquid will fall underneath the fat layer, the hot expanding water vapor can spray hot fat and caustic lye solution into your face.

It doesn't happen often, but it happens

Good point, @DeeAnna . I really didn't think about it, but now I can imagine what a disaster it could have been. When I got my second batch of rosin mix out of microwave at 300F, I did notice how oddly it was behaving. It wasn't really boiling, but making small bubbles around the silicone spatula in the cup. I imagined for a second spilling this viscous liquid on a skin. It made me very uncomfortable.
Your version is even worse

 

[natik]

How long should I wait for the HP rosin soap to dry? It is looking good, but almost feels like sweating the glycerin at this point. Will get dry to touch?

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm glad all went well.

Based on my experience with rosin based soap, I'd expect the soap will be fine. Since it's not my soap, I can't say for sure how much time it will need to dry down, however. You'll have to wait and see