High Oleic Soybean Oil

[AliOop]

I did see that one at our warehouse, but that's 100% soybean oil. The product that goes with the price tag I listed above was a mix of soybean oil and partially hydrogenated soybean oil, and was marked as appropriate for high-heat cooking and frying. I'll try to get a picture of the label next time.

 

[Vicki C]

From what I have researched, this one is not a HO soybean. I wouldn’t use it.

Thank you!

 

[Vicki C]

I went to Restaurant Depot yesterday and bought a big jug of high oleic soybean oil (same brand that @Jersey Girl showed above) - very excited to try this and will follow up here with results. It may need to wait until after I’m done with holiday markets. I also found some dry wax deli paper that I’m going to try it for soap wrapping - following on this thread about soap wrapping.
Soap wrapping with translucent paper
Not a perfect solution since the wax is petroleum based, and I was trying to get away from that, but we do what we can.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I went to Restaurant Depot yesterday and bought a big jug of high oleic soybean oil (same brand that @Jersey Girl showed above) - very excited to try this and will follow up here with results. It may need to wait until after I’m done with holiday markets. I also found some dry wax deli paper that I’m going to try it for soap wrapping - following on this thread about soap wrapping.
Soap wrapping with translucent paper
Not a perfect solution since the wax is petroleum based, and I was trying to get away from that, but we do what we can.

That’s great. I plan on getting a jug too but haven’t had the chance to get back there. Looking forward to hearing your results And to trying it myself!

 

[Vicki C]

I am getting ready to try the HO soybean oil, but can’t find any calculators that list it. The fatty acid profile, according to an industry publication, is
75% oleic acid,
8% linoleic acid,
2% alpha-linolenic acid, and
12% saturated fats (Stearic/palmitic?)

For comparison, the values for high oleic sunflower oil in soapcalc are:
83% oleic
4% stearic
3% palmitic
4% linoleic
1% linolenic

Anybody have any ideas? I’d love to find a calculator that lists it without my having to get an advanced degree in chemistry. I suppose I could just experiment and drop in one of the other high oleic oils.

 

[AliOop]

I am getting ready to try the HO soybean oil, but can’t find any calculators that list it. The fatty acid profile, according to an industry publication, is
75% oleic acid,
8% linoleic acid,
2% alpha-linolenic acid, and
12% saturated fats (Stearic/palmitic?)

For comparison, the values for high oleic sunflower oil in soapcalc are:
83% oleic
4% stearic
3% palmitic
4% linoleic
1% linolenic

Anybody have any ideas? I’d love to find a calculator that lists it without my having to get an advanced degree in chemistry. I suppose I could just experiment and drop in one of the other high oleic oils.

In Soapmaking Friend, you can add a new oil and input the values. I don't know if other calculators allow for that, but I seem to recall that something like that was possible in Soapcalc.

 

[Vicki C]

In Soapmaking Friend, you can add a new oil and input the values. I don't know if other calculators allow for that, but I seem to recall that something like that was possible in Soapcalc.

Thanks! I just gave it a try on Soapmaking friend but it looks like you have to know the SAP to be able to enter it otherwise it just assigns an SAP of zero.
hmm looks like I’ll need to study some chemistry after all.

 

[AliOop]

Oh rats! Maybe @DeeAnna or @Mobjack Bay can assist with that piece of things?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks! I just gave it a try on Soapmaking friend but it looks like you have to know the SAP to be able to enter it otherwise it just assigns an SAP of zero.
hmm looks like I’ll need to study some chemistry after all.

From the SMF c@lculator:

HO Sunflower
Palmitic 3%
Stearic 4%
Oleic 83%
Linoleic 4%
Linolenic 1%

HO Safflower
Palmitic 5%
Stearic 2%
Oleic 77%
Linoleic 15%
Linolenic 0%

Olive Oil
Palmitic 14%
Stearic 3%
Oleic 69%
Linoleic 12%
Linolenic 1%

Your numbers for HO Soybean
12% saturated fats (Stearic/palmitic?)
75% oleic acid
8% linoleic acid
2% alpha-linolenic acid

In the SMF c@lculator, HO Sunflower, HO Safflower and Olive Oil all return an NaOH SAP of 0.135, which is what I would go with. With more effort you could probably come up with reasonable INS and Iodine numbers for a custom oil simply by comparing the numbers for the other high oleics, which I did not do. If you use olive oil as the proxy you will have the best estimate of the percentage of linoleic + linolenic in the calculated recipe, an overestimate of saturated fats (assuming the only saturated fats in the HO Soybean are stearic and/or palmitic, or other long chain FAs) and an underestimate of oleic. The over- and under-estimates would be slight unless you were using a high percentage of the HO Soybean.

The nearest Restaurant Depot to me is about an hour away. I was just near there last week when I took my son to the airport. Darn!

 

[Vicki C]

From the SMF c@lculator:

HO Sunflower
Palmitic 3%
Stearic 4%
Oleic 83%
Linoleic 4%
Linolenic 1%

HO Safflower
Palmitic 5%
Stearic 2%
Oleic 77%
Linoleic 15%
Linolenic 0%

Olive Oil
Palmitic 14%
Stearic 3%
Oleic 69%
Linoleic 12%
Linolenic 1%

Your numbers for HO Soybean
12% saturated fats (Stearic/palmitic?)
75% oleic acid
8% linoleic acid
2% alpha-linolenic acid

In the SMF c@lculator, HO Sunflower, HO Safflower and Olive Oil all return an NaOH SAP of 0.135, which is what I would go with. With more effort you could probably come up with reasonable INS and Iodine numbers for a custom oil simply by comparing the numbers for the other high oleics, which I did not do. If you use olive oil as the proxy you will have the best estimate of the percentage of linoleic + linolenic in the calculated recipe, an overestimate of saturated fats (assuming the only saturated fats in the HO Soybean are stearic and/or palmitic, or other long chain FAs) and an underestimate of oleic. The over- and under-estimates would be slight unless you were using a high percentage of the HO Soybean.

The nearest Restaurant Depot to me is about an hour away. I was just near there last week when I took my son to the airport. Darn!

This is super helpful thanks. I was going to wing it and just sub in OO but now I’ll feel more confident doing so. And shucks I’d love it if you were experimenting with HO soybean oil too!

 

[AliOop]

@Mobjack Bay Why not create a new oil listing for HO Soybean, using the correct FA numbers and a SAP value of 0.135?

 

[Jersey Girl]

Just found this from Webstaurant Store. Shipping to me is only $18.50. Total was around $72. That’s about $13/oz. another good deal compared to Olive oil prices. 76% oleic!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@Mobjack Bay Why not create a new oil listing for HO Soybean, using the correct FA numbers and a SAP value of 0.135?

That part is easy, but it would take a little guesstimating to come up with INS and Iodine values. The INS and iodine values are close for OO and HO Sunflower but HO Safflower Is a little different.

@Jersey Girl thanks for posting the new link! The oil looks good and the shipping to my house is reasonable.

 

[AliOop]

That part is easy, but it would take a little guesstimating to come up with INS and Iodine values. The INS and iodine values are close for OO and HO Sunflower but HO Safflower Is a little different.

Thank you, that's an interesting point. Do you refer to those values much in your soapmaking? I honestly don't, as my understanding is that they really aren't that relevant, at least, not in comparison to the FA values.

Also, the INS, iodine, and SAP numbers will be estimated whether one creates a new oil listing specifically for HO soybean, or uses an existing oil (OO for instance) as a substitute.

For that reason, to me it would make the most sense to create the new oil listing for HO soybean. That way, at least my recipe would have an accurate FA listing, even if the remaining values are estimates.

Does that make sense, or am I missing something?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@AliOop Honestly, I was mostly trying to avoid going down the rabbit hole on this one. I don’t rely on INS and Iodine, but I do look at all of the available data. My preference is to not add a custom oil until I have estimates for all of the numbers.

 

[AliOop]

@AliOop Honestly, I was mostly trying to avoid going down the rabbit hole on this one. I don’t rely on INS and Iodine, but I do look at all of the available data. My preference is to not add a custom oil until I have estimates for all of the numbers.

That makes total sense. Thanks for explaining!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I decided that I'm not making enough soap right now to justify buying a 35 lb container of liquid oil, but @Jersey Girl and @Vicki C, please do keep us updated on the testing. I made it to a Trader Joe's today and bought 8 liters of their organic high oleic sunflower oil because the cost was only $0.118/fluid ounce w/o tax, which is less than what I have been paying with shipping when I order from Soaper's Choice. I only stopped in to stock up on the chocolate covered Joe Joe peppermint cookies (yum), but the lightbulb came on once I was in the store (thanks @dibbles ).

 

[Vicki C]

I’m going to be near a Trader Joe’s today, I think I’ll pick some up too. Didn’t realize it was that inexpensive. And I might have to get some Joe Joes too!

 

[Vicki C]

Thread revival, hopefully not too late. I have made several batches of soap with the high oleic soy and I like it. More recently I bought some high oleic sunflower from Webstaurant, and I love it. I have found that my masterbatched oils stay more fluid, perhaps because HO sunflower has a higher melting point than olive oil. When I mix with the lye, I feel like I have more working time than with the olive oil I had been using. (Cheapest available but usually Walmart GV). Because I have more working time I can do more stick blending than I could before, so the batter is better emulsified than it had been. Maybe because of this I get less soda ash than I did with olive oil. I just made a large batch of goat milk lavender soap (6600 g total oils) and got zero soda ash even though I used violet ultramarine pigment which sometimes gives me trouble. The soap had a beautiful shiny finish right out of the mold.
I may have been having issues previously because my lye is usually cold, so when it was mixing with the olive oil maybe it was thickening the olive oil (and other oils/butters) and creating false trace, but I think the HO sunflower behaves differently than olive oil.
The HO sunflower is listed as non-GMO. The soy is genetically modified, I think. I have no interest in getting into a discussion about merits or evils of genetically modified crops in this forum - but I know some of my customers will want to, so I think I’m going to stick with the HO non-GMO sunflower.