Help With Soft Soap Please

[Kcryss]

If you can find high oleic that's better - reduces your chances of DOS.

You can up your lard. I have a 60% lard soap that my mom loves. The olive in that is only 20% with coconut n castor making up the rest. It makes a hard bar, and quite fluid too. I've managed a tiger stripe swirl with it and a layered soap. Don't forget the yogurt.

Or you can experiment with increasing your cocoa butter for harder soap.. I've tried it between 10-20% but I let mine cure slightly longer if I used a lot. Lathers better..


I don't CP much either but I did notice that the few ones I've made took less time to harden than any HP ones. That's why I took to curing all my soaps regardless of recipe a minimum 8wks - 6 if I cannot.

It's most probably all that water - I try using the minimum if I'm not planning swirls and rarely use 3:1 lye ratio. Less water also lessens warping once they're cured.

Now that I have a source for beef fat and in a few weeks pork fat I will be using it more and more. This lard I used in the last recipe was all I had. I just got 5lbs of beef fat though so hopefully can get it chopped and rendered tonight/tomorrow.

Just noticed you are in the Philippines. Since you're posting, I am assuming all is well for you and your family?

 

[Obsidian]

Check your local grocery store for safflower, the one with the big flower on front is HO. Its very cheap, is light in color and easy to work with.
The only issue I have with using oleic acid is knowing how much to use but math isn't a strong point for me.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...you can purchase Oleic Acid.... If using lower oleic acid oils, is it good to use this as an additive?..."

You can use it, sure. It will make soap just fine, as long as you are aware of the tradeoffs.

Some fatty acids melt at higher temps than fats, so you either need to soap at higher temps than you might normally prefer or you have to melt the FAs separately and then add them carefully to warmish soap batter. I believe oleic acid is liquid at room temp (haven't checked to be sure), so this probably isn't an issue for this fatty acid. But it is something to keep in mind if using other FAs. Stearic acid melts (if my memory is correct) around 150-160F.

Any fatty acid will react within seconds with NaOH (or KOH), so using any fatty acids with a cold process method can be difficult. The soap essentially wants to seize in the soap pot. The hot process method allows for this, cold process does not. I normally use a hot process method when using fatty acids to make soap.

In commercial soap making, a carbonate alkali -- sodium carbonate (washing soda, soda ash) or potassium carbonate -- is used to saponify just fatty acids. You don't need the super strength of a hydroxide alkali (NaOH or KOH) to do this job, because the hard work of splitting the fat molecules apart has been eliminated.​

When fatty acids saponify, no glycerin is created. That may or may not be a concern, depending on your perception of what glycerin does or doesn't contribute to soap. But something to keep in mind. Here's some current discussion on this issue -- https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-beneficial-is-soap-really.77637/

"...It's actually relatively inexpensive. 10 dollars for a whole quart...."

That's about $5.40 per pound, assuming the density of oleic acid is the same as the fat.

I can buy high oleic sunflower for just over $2 per pound from Soapers Choice, not counting shipping. Even if you place no value on the glycerin content of HO sunflower, it's still a better buy than oleic acid. https://soaperschoice.com/sunflower-ho-plastic-bottle

You can often find HO sunflower and/or safflower in grocery stores. The cost might be a bit more per pound from your local grocery, but it might still be reasonably economical once a person factors in the shipping cost.

 

[Kcryss]

Thanks DeeAnna and Obsidian!

I will opt for the HO oils and check out Soapers Choice. That's one I hadn't found yet. I've been using LotionCrafters, WSP, and MakeYourOwnBuzz.

As always DeeAnna, thank you so much for sharing your amazing knowledge.

 

[Dawni]

Now that I have a source for beef fat and in a few weeks pork fat I will be using it more and more. This lard I used in the last recipe was all I had. I just got 5lbs of beef fat though so hopefully can get it chopped and rendered tonight/tomorrow.

Just noticed you are in the Philippines. Since you're posting, I am assuming all is well for you and your family?

Yes, your tallow will make a really hard, brittle even if unbalanced, bar of soap. The lard will also lend hardness, and creaminess. Unfortunately tallow is too expensive and hard to find here so I'm just repeating what I've read lol

And yes, thank you, all good here. We are fortunately very far from the stuff happening down south. We did get almost a full day of rain on Christmas but nothing like theirs. Things have been bad for them all of last month and have continued. Hope they recover quickly..

 

[Kcryss]

Yes, your tallow will make a really hard, brittle even if unbalanced, bar of soap. The lard will also lend hardness, and creaminess. Unfortunately tallow is too expensive and hard to find here so I'm just repeating what I've read lol

And yes, thank you, all good here. We are fortunately very far from the stuff happening down south. We did get almost a full day of rain on Christmas but nothing like theirs. Things have been bad for them all of last month and have continued. Hope they recover quickly..

Terrible news from the Philippines! My thoughts and prayers are with those affected. Glad to hear you are safe.

Tallow is very expensive here as well unless you can get the fat and render yourself. It's $1 per ounce in the grocery store. Lard in the store is cheap, but it's hydrogenated ... not sure if that matters with soap or not. Guessing probably not.

 

[Obsidian]

Lard in the store is cheap, but it's hydrogenated ... not sure if that matters with soap or not. Guessing probably not.

Nope, doesn't matter at all.

 

[Kcryss]

Nope, doesn't matter at all.

Good to know! Thanks Rendering pork fat wasn't fun. Beef fat probably will not be either, but it's cheap at $.50 a lb.

 

[KiwiMoose]

The four soft oils I use are OO, Rice Bran Oil, Avocado Oil and Castor.

 

[Kcryss]

The four soft oils I use are OO, Rice Bran Oil, Avocado Oil and Castor.

I haven't tried Avocado or Rice Bran oils yet in soap, but I use Avocado in other things. My favorite for other things is Grapeseed Oil.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I haven't tried Avocado or Rice Bran oils yet in soap, but I use Avocado in other things. My favorite for other things is Grapeseed Oil.

I've avoided grapeseed for soap - I think it could encourage DOS if I remember rightly. RBO is incredibly cheap here - so it helps keep costs down.

 

[HowieRoll]

Yes, you want to use high oleic versions. I really like sunflower but its very expensive here.

As an aside, if anyone has a Trader Joe's nearby their sunflower oil is super reasonable ($3.99 for 33.8 oz) and high oleic.

 

[cmzaha]

Rice Bran Oil is a nice replacement for OO, which btw I hate. A lard/tallow combo makes a great soap with 10-15 liquid oil. With such a low percentage you can get away with regular canola or sunflower. I love Canola oil in soap and some Business Costco's carry in 5 gallon totes as do some restaurant supplies. If shipping is not too high Soapers Choice is a good place to purchase oils. Tallow up to 45% is nice and replaces palm beautifully.

 

[Obsidian]

As an aside, if anyone has a Trader Joe's nearby their sunflower oil is super reasonable ($3.99 for 33.8 oz) and high oleic.

I think it really depends on location. Trader Joes here doesn't carry it.

 

[HowieRoll]

I think it really depends on location. Trader Joes here doesn't carry it.

Hrrmppph. Well that's a real bummer. Here's hoping they come to their senses soon and stock the shelves with it!

 

[Kcryss]

Soft soap update
It has now been 8 days. The soap is still a bit soft, but is hardening finally. Even the lard smell has dissipated. "Really" happy about that part!

Also, I spent several days rendering beef fat into tallow. I started with 4 lbs and ended up with 3.2 lbs! Thanks to all for the cleaning tips it does not smell at all!