Haunted Forest Plant Therapy Blend for soap

[Ron-tha-mon]

I want to try a soap for the season and was looking at the Haunted Forest blend from plant therapy. I noticed it says 1% maximum for topical uses and I was wondering if this would apply to the soap calc figures?

My recipe I used last had a fragrance weight at around 3% but I was wondering how saponification effects this and if I should also keep the maximum oil weight of 1% or could I get away with more?

https://www.planttherapy.com/collections/seasonal/products/haunted-forest-essential-oil-blend

 

[Ephemerella]

So I don't see an IRFA statement associated with that EO blend. I don't use EOs so perhaps there is something I'm not aware of, but typically, when using a product that has limitations in useage — like a fragrance — there should be an IRFA statement that provides specific max usage rates per product category. Soap is a wash-off product and falls under Cat 9.

I would ask the manufacturer about their IRFA and SDS reports (as you should have those on file if you plan to sell). If they can't provide it, I personally would not use the product, but that's me.

 

[Ron-tha-mon]

I'm very much still learning and all these are for my own home. But I do hope to one day be at the place to sell and hopefully get my kids to take part. It is good to know that for when I am ready.

I like the strong fragrance I'm just worried if 3% of this blend would be harmful or otherwise undesirable. Im thinking about just trying it to see how it does.

Do you think 3% is high for fragrance weight?

 

[Ephemerella]

So the company has this disclaimer:
Dilute to a maximum of 1% for topical applications. Harmful if swallowed. Keep out of reach of children. If pregnant, nursing, or under a doctor's care, consult your physician. Discontinue use if skin irritation/sensitivity occurs. Avoid contact with eyes and mucous membranes. External use only.

And that applies to 1% as per their recommendations. However they do not make a distinction in topical between leave on and rinse off. Without guidance from the company, 3% seems like inviting trouble to me, but again, I don't use EOs.

In general, however, it's best not to approach fragrance usage with a fixed number in mind (i.e., "I like 3%") because usage rates vary wildly depending on the chemical composition of each fragrance (whether natural or synthetic), as well as the strength and retention can vary wildly too. Some of the FOs I use would be far too faint at 3%, while others would cross my eyeballs.

Every time you choose a fragrance of any kind for any product, you should 1) determine the maximum usage from the manufacturer and then 2) determine what works best for your nose — without exceeding the maximum usage.

I, too, love a strongly scented product. There are many lovely fragrances out there I wish I could use, but their max usage rate puts the olfactory strength far below what I prefer in a product.. so I don't use them. And sometimes that really sucks, but there are so many fragrances out there, it's easy to move on.

It's always dreadful to think if a person who uses your product, whether gifted or sold, has a reaction -- which honestly can't be helped with someone with sensitivity. But it would be even more awful if someone had a reaction and it was avoidable on your part.

So... to directly answer your question "Do you think 3% is high for fragrance weight?"

It depends.

 

[Lynne]

That brand is far to expensive to use in soap, even more if you are planning to sell.

Each individual E.O. has their percentage limitations. That blend looks like it might have a dozen different E.O.'s it
and you do not know what each percentage is.

 

[Ron-tha-mon]

I’m still very much in the learning phase of soap making. I do some other cottage sales and hope to get my teenage daughter involved in soap making with the goal of having her sell her soaps alongside my beef products at local markets. For now, my focus is on making the best tallow soaps I can and learning as much as possible along the way.

Are there any popular vendors where I can purchase individual essential oils at a reasonable price? Where do you source yours? So far, I’ve been using individual bottles as needed for each batch, starting with some oils I had on hand from Melaleuca. However, this isn’t sustainable, even just for my family’s use.

Additionally, is there a good resource that provides detailed information on individual essential oils, particularly regarding their safety levels in wash-off versus leave-on products? I read on one site that Cinnamon oil is concerning and should never exceed 20% of the total blend. Is there a centralized place where I can find similar information for other oils?

I did play with these oils and got this calculation, do you have thoughts about this?

I don’t have enough experience with oils to know how strong each will be outside of trying to reverse engineer other blends I find. I see a lot of recipes 1-2% concentrations. There must be a resource that can guide me to blends so I don’t have to trial and error them all myself.

For a 44 oz (1,247 g) batch of oils in soap:

• Total EO Weight (3% of total oils):
1,247 g x 0.03 = 37.41 g (this is roughly 1.3 oz)

Essential Oil Blend

• Cedarwood (Atlas or Virginian): 35% of the EO blend (12 g)
• Palo Santo: 25% of the EO blend (9 g)
• Coffee: 20% of the EO blend (7.5 g)
• Cinnamon (Bark or Leaf): 20% of the EO blend (7.5 g)

Total EO blend weight: 37.41 g

 

[dibbles]

is there a good resource that provides detailed information on individual essential oils

EO calc is a good resource, although not all EOs are included. Look for the "calculate your own blend" tab at the top. You can enter essential oils in your blend by percentage and in the product you want to use them in. You can enter only one EO at 100%, or a blend you create.

I primarily use FOs, so my EO vendor experience is limited. Camden Grey recently went out of business and that is where I purchased many of them. I have also been happy with EOs purchased from Bramble Berry, Jedwards, and Nurture Handmade. If a vendor doesn't provide IFRA, preferably without having to email for the information, I won't purchase from them - EOs or FOs.

 

[Tammyfarms]

I use mostly EO’s. Vendors I use mostly are Brambleberry and Shay and Company. I have also used Wholesale Supplies Plus. Brambleberry is soap focused so they include information for soap makers. Shay and company doesn’t provide as much information and they don’t have as many reviews from soap makers.

Whoever you buy from, look for information on soaping. Not all EOs are suitable for soap making. Some of that is the EO and some is the way it’s manufactured. Make sure you run every EO through eocalc.com or another similar tool.
You may also want to see if there is a local soap ingredient supplier near you. I live in the boonies, the nearest supplier is 2 hours away. Most of my purchases are mail order. It’s worth mentioning that both Brambleberry and Shay and Company are a state away from me so shipping is cheaper than if I lived further away. Hope this helps.

 

[AliOop]

In addition to the suppliers recommended by @dibbles, New Directions Aromatics (NDA) is a very reputable EO supplier with reasonable prices. Sometimes Hopewell Oils will have competitive EO prices on their larger quantities; their smaller quantities tend to be less than MLM companies but not as low as the soap and candle supply companies.

Whatever you do, avoid the EOs sold on Amazon or in your local craft stores. Many are adulterated, or flat out fakes. For instance, anyone selling a rose or sandalwood EO that costs less than your mortgage payment is selling a fake, for sure. Others advertise and sell scents that aren't available as an EO, like coconut or vanilla.

Besides the EOCalc website (and to a limited extent, Hopewell Oils' website), an excellent hard copy reference book is Tisserand and Young's Essential Oil Safety (2nd Edition). It's pricey, but worth it. I had it on my Amazon watch list for several years before catching a sale on a used copy for about half the price of the current new listing.

 

[Ephemerella]

@Ron-tha-mon You just missed a 30% off sale at https://www.candlescience.com/ it's worth getting on their mailing list as they run 1oz FO and EO sales several times throughout the year

 

[Saponificarian]

Shop around but I have found great prices at Liberty Naturals. I bought 5lbs of Cedarwood Himalayan EO last year for about $50, but of course it’s a bit more now. https://libertynatural.com/ I will admit their website is a bit dated and you won’t know what shipping is until they send you an email to charge your card, but I have found awesome prices with them. I highly recommend their Oakmoss and Labdanum. Their Jasmine wax is beautiful too, if you make solid perfume.

 

[Ron-tha-mon]

EO calc is a good resource, although not all EOs are included. Look for the "calculate your own blend" tab at the top. You can enter essential oils in your blend by percentage and in the product you want to use them in. You can enter only one EO at 100%, or a blend you create.

I primarily use FOs, so my EO vendor experience is limited. Camden Grey recently went out of business and that is where I purchased many of them. I have also been happy with EOs purchased from Bramble Berry, Jedwards, and Nurture Handmade. If a vendor doesn't provide IFRA, preferably without having to email for the information, I won't purchase from them - EOs or FOs.

I’ve been digging through google searches and came across this book in considering buying. Dora anyone have experience with this book and think it a worthwhile purchase?

In addition to the suppliers recommended by @dibbles, New Directions Aromatics (NDA) is a very reputable EO supplier with reasonable prices. Sometimes Hopewell Oils will have competitive EO prices on their larger quantities; their smaller quantities tend to be less than MLM companies but not as low as the soap and candle supply companies.

Whatever you do, avoid the EOs sold on Amazon or in your local craft stores. Many are adulterated, or flat out fakes. For instance, anyone selling a rose or sandalwood EO that costs less than your mortgage payment is selling a fake, for sure. Others advertise and sell scents that aren't available as an EO, like coconut or vanilla.

Besides the EOCalc website (and to a limited extent, Hopewell Oils' website), an excellent hard copy reference book is Tisserand and Young's Essential Oil Safety (2nd Edition). It's pricey, but worth it. I had it on my Amazon watch list for several years before catching a sale on a used copy for about half the price of the current new listing. I think I’m going to go ahead and look into get this book. It seems to be exactly what I’m looking for, and I like the idea of a hard copy, frankly. I’ve been printing out all my recipes and other worthwhile documents, just in case one day I can’t access my data.

Thank you!

I think I’m going to go ahead and look into get this book you suggest. It seems to be exactly what I’m looking for, and I like the idea of a hard copy, frankly.
I’ve been printing out all my recipes and other worthwhile documents, just in case one day I can’t access my data.

 

[paradisi]

It's a useful book, but it's not at all targeted to soapmaking. Tisserand is an aromatherapist and while it's interesting, the recommendations are for dermal (topical; massage etc.) use. You won't find limits or levels for soap or other rinse off uses.

His interest is the safety of the aromatherapy practitioner applying fragranced oils and of the patient having them applied, or inhaling them.

 

[AliOop]

It's a useful book, but it's not at all targeted to soapmaking. Tisserand is an aromatherapist and while it's interesting, the recommendations are for dermal (topical; massage etc.) use. You won't find limits or levels for soap or other rinse off uses.

His interest is the safety of the aromatherapy practitioner applying fragranced oils and of the patient having them applied, or inhaling them.

Thank you for making that additional point, @paradisi - an important one, to be sure. For me, the topical usage limitations provide at least a rough idea of whether an EO should also be limited in wash-off (soapmaking) applications.

What I find much harder to figure out is the safe usage rate of EO blends. Many oils that are ok at 2-3% usage rate on their own, or mixed with Oils A, B, and C, become unsafe at that exact same rate if they are mixed with Oils D, E, and F, due to increasing levels of the sensitizing components found in the latter group of oils, but not the former group.

Even with the great info from this book, it takes a lot of work to work out safe blends using oils that are in the book, but not in EOCalc. That's why I generally stick to EO blends that I can run through EOCalc. Sometimes I can sub in an EO that isn't listed in EOCalc but has a similar chemical profile to one that is. Even so, I prefer not to do that if I can avoid it.

 

[paradisi]

Thank you for making that additional point, @paradisi - an important one, to be sure. For me, the topical usage limitations provide at least a rough idea of whether an EO should also be limited in wash-off (soapmaking) applications.

What I find much harder to figure out is the safe usage rate of EO blends. Many oils that are ok at 2-3% usage rate on their own, or mixed with Oils A, B, and C, become unsafe at that exact same rate if they are mixed with Oils D, E, and F, due to increasing levels of the sensitizing components found in the latter group of oils, but not the former group.

Even with the great info from this book, it takes a lot of work to work out safe blends using oils that are in the book, but not in EOCalc. That's why I generally stick to EO blends that I can run through EOCalc. Sometimes I can sub in an EO that isn't listed in EOCalc but has a similar chemical profile to one that is. Even so, I prefer not to do that if I can avoid it.

That's where the supplier's EU allergens lists and SDS help, by indicating % of the various aromachems in the oils. Tisserand gives averages, but those vary by species & chemotype and supplier.

A spreadsheet with current limits, and plugging in amounts from the documentation and summing those, will help.

Though that's all a steadily moving target as IFRA yearly dial down what they accept as safe.

I've also seen lots of examples from suppliers where limits are as much as 20x lower or higher dermal vs soap, yet higher for baby's skin. So one can't just expect that there's a sliding scale, dermal to soap. It's frustrating.

I think that eventually they will have to make a separate category for bar soap than the others in category 9 to be logically consistent.