Got a cloudy lye solution

[deafsoaper]

The past couple soaps I made I noticed that my lye/citric acid solution becoming a white cloudy and slightly thicker consistency solution and not the usual clear colour solution

What is the cause of it?

Thanks

 

[Ekuzo]

How long has it been since you opened your NaOH? Could it be that the purity dropped significantly and now you end up with more sodium carbonate when preparing the solution?

 

[deafsoaper]

How long has it been since you opened your NaOH? Could it be that the purity dropped significantly and now you end up with more sodium carbonate when preparing the solution?

Bought the lye like a few weeks ago

 

[LidiaG]

Are you using ice or something to keep your lye mix cold during mix?
I noticed some Citric acid clumping at the bottom when I do this.

Also the Citric acid needs to be completely dissolved before adding the lye solution

 

[Ekuzo]

Bought the lye like a few weeks ago

Was it tightly sealed during this time, and have you noticed small white particles inside? As for thickness, I notice it gets a lot thicker when I dissolve sugar in the water, but you said it's only citric and lye

 

[deafsoaper]

Are you using ice or something to keep your lye mix cold during mix?
I noticed some Citric acid clumping at the bottom when I do this.

Also the Citric acid needs to be completely dissolved before adding the lye solution

I did put the water in the freezer for a little bit but wasn't frozen or anything... but cold enough I guess

Maybe stop doing that and just leave it at room temperature water. I just can't remember even further back if I did that .. usually I just put it outside for a bit, I'm from Canada so getting cooler but not cold like the freezer

Was it tightly sealed during this time, and have you noticed small white particles inside? As for thickness, I notice it gets a lot thicker when I dissolve sugar in the water, but you said it's only citric and lye

Yeah tight sealed... got a child proof lock thing, that push down and turn motion. No idea what small white particles yoy are reffering to, the lye are white

 

[Ekuzo]

I did put the water in the freezer for a little bit but wasn't frozen or anything... but cold enough I guess

Maybe stop doing that and just leave it at room temperature water. I just can't remember even further back if I did that .. usually I just put it outside for a bit, I'm from Canada so getting cooler but not cold like the freezer

Yeah tight sealed... got a child proof lock thing, that push down and turn motion. No idea what small white particles yoy are reffering to, the lye are white

Sorry, I meant white particles inside the solution itself after you make it, like soda ash. But I now know what the issue is.

Lye can precipitate from a solution under a certain temperature (something in the range of 15-18 Celsius IIRC), that's why it's not good to keep it (the solution) under RT, let alone freeze it or even refrigerate it. I hope you strained your lye when mixing it with the oils

 

[deafsoaper]

Sorry, I meant white particles inside the solution itself after you make it, like soda ash. But I now know what the issue is.

Lye can precipitate from a solution under a certain temperature (something in the range of 15-18 Celsius IIRC), that's why it's not good to keep it (the solution) under RT, let alone freeze it or even refrigerate it. I hope you strained your lye when mixing it with the oils

Oh I don't see anything like that

Yes I always strain the solution before adding to oils

 

[LidiaG]

I did put the water in the freezer for a little bit but wasn't frozen or anything... but cold enough I guess

What you can do if you don't want your lye solution to get too hot, is to use a water bath. Cold tap water should be enough if you're in Canada.

You can leave some ice cube nearby and drop a few ice cubes in your water bath as needed. As you mix your lye you can add and remove your lye solution from the cool water bath as needed to keep the temperature of your mix cool, but keep it warm enough to disolve the lye properly.
You can use a thermometer or monitor by the amount of fumes to know if your lye water is getting too hot.

Just make sure the Citric acid is well disolved like I had mentioned, before mixing in the lye.

I have had to warm up part of the lye solution to disolve the Citric acid. Then I add the Citric acid water to the rest of the water, mix well, and then add the lye. If you add sugar, you may have to warm it up to disolve separately as well.

I'm in Ottawa, the temperature varies so much that if you soap in the summer or winter months , I need different approaches to make the soap based on the weather

 

[Ekuzo]

Oh I don't see anything like that

Yes I always strain the solution before adding to oils

In that case you probably just ended with higher SF (because of the NaOH that was left out of the solution - depending on how much was left in the strainer). As long as you don't notice much difference in the final product, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for those batches

 

[deafsoaper]

What you can do if you don't want your lye solution to get too hot, is to use a water bath. Cold tap water should be enough if you're in Canada.

You can leave some ice cube nearby and drop a few ice cubes in your water bath as needed. As you mix your lye you can add and remove your lye solution from the cool water bath as needed to keep the temperature of your mix cool, but keep it warm enough to disolve the lye properly.
You can use a thermometer or monitor by the amount of fumes to know if your lye water is getting too hot.

Just make sure the Citric acid is well disolved like I had mentioned, before mixing in the lye.

I have had to warm up part of the lye solution to disolve the Citric acid. Then I add the Citric acid water to the rest of the water, mix well, and then add the lye. If you add sugar, you may have to warm it up to disolve separately as well.

I'm in Ottawa, the temperature varies so much that if you soap in the summer or winter months , I need different approaches to make the soap based on the weather

Ah cool.. I live like 30 mins from toronto

Made soap with room temp water last night

Smooth and easy as I usually do in the past lol smh... I don't know why I decided to do it with cooler water. Probably remember in the past seeing people using cooler water to tame the lye but probably doesn't have citric acid.

Different approaches for different people/recipe

If it ain't broken, don't fix it lol... (slap my own hand) lol

 

[LidiaG]

Smooth and easy as I usually do in the past lol smh...

Awesome! Good for you!

I don't know why I decided to do it with cooler water.

In my case it was too reduce the fumes. And I'm inpatient
So the water bath to cool down the lye water a notch as I mix it has been working well for me.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it lol... (slap my own hand) lol

So true!!

 

[Ekuzo]

It's not a problem if you prepare the solution with chill water or even frozen, as the lye gets dissolved it will get at least warm and that won't get in the way. But once it's ready, don't cool it down too much

 

[deafsoaper]

Awesome! Good for you!



In my case it was too reduce the fumes. And I'm inpatient
So the water bath to cool down the lye water a notch as I mix it has been working well for me.

So true!!

Yeah probably why I thought it would be nice to reduce the fumes

It's not a problem if you prepare the solution with chill water or even frozen, as the lye gets dissolved it will get at least warm and that won't get in the way. But once it's ready, don't cool it down too much

It not the lye... seem like the Citric acid is harder to dissolve in cooler water

If I done lye only solution then yes I would have use cooler or even ice

 

[cmzaha]

Depending on your lye concentration, it can commonly happen, and adding citric acid contributes to the thickening. With my master batch at 50%, my lye is always cloudy, but I do not add any additives to it, so it does not get thick. I add all additives separately.

 

[Ekuzo]

It not the lye... seem like the Citric acid is harder to dissolve in cooler water

If I done lye only solution then yes I would have use cooler or even ice

If you need/want to use frozen water (milk, juice, any liquid), you can dissolve the citric before freezing it - you'll bypass the issue that way

 

[ackosel]

If you need/want to use frozen water (milk, juice, any liquid), you can dissolve the citric before freezing it - you'll bypass the issue that way

Won't citric acid added to milk make it curdle? It sure does when I make cheese...

 

[Ekuzo]

Won't citric acid added to milk make it curdle? It sure does when I make cheese...

Maybe it does when it's kept warm instead of getting frozen? I notice curds some time after I dissolve the lye in it, but I think that's because the fatty acids in it start to saponify. I just strain it well to make sure there's nothing undissolved left and the soap is smooth at the end. But tbh, next time I'll use MP to see how it turns out

 

[LidiaG]

Won't citric acid added to milk make it curdle? It sure does when I make cheese...

I notice this a few times. I just blend it back together before making the soap.


If you want to avoid this you can add to some of the recipe water(it would not be 100% milk anymore) to some lye then you will make sodium/potassium citrate and then cool it a bit add this to the milk to proceed with the recipe.

I've done that before

And I do a similar thing to add Citric acid to ZNSC. Because you should not mix baking soda and Citric acid.
Just a bit more thinking and planning that's all ...don't we all love that about soapmaking?

 

[deafsoaper]

If you need/want to use frozen water (milk, juice, any liquid), you can dissolve the citric before freezing it - you'll bypass the issue that way

Oh interesting ... i never use other liquids before

I can replace the same amount of water with another liquid no problem?