I am also interested in making French Mill style soap. I want to use a Saipua recipe and would like to know if anyone has a source for the beautiful tissue paper they use. I believe it's an Italian paper. Is this wax backed?
French Milled
- Thread starter Fishingerk1
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French milling (aka milling) is a process that the average small-scale soap maker cannot do. You need specialized rolling equipment to mill soap. Cool, dry soap is pressed between chilled metal or stone rollers to make the soap harder and more dense. It's sometimes called "French milling" because the process was first developed in France back in the day.
The term "milling" is sometimes incorrectly used when people really mean the process of "rebatching". Rebatching is the process of heating soap usually with a bit of added liquid until it forms a thick paste, and then pouring the paste into mold(s). So heat and liquid are required.
Not sure which method you're talking about, so I'm explaining both.
I have no advice about the paper nor the recipe you're looking at.
The term "milling" is sometimes incorrectly used when people really mean the process of "rebatching". Rebatching is the process of heating soap usually with a bit of added liquid until it forms a thick paste, and then pouring the paste into mold(s). So heat and liquid are required.
Not sure which method you're talking about, so I'm explaining both.
I have no advice about the paper nor the recipe you're looking at.
akseattle
Well-Known Member
@Fishingerk1 , my understanding of French milled soap is as @DeeAnna explained.
The "milled soap"artisan soap that is possible to make at home without special commercial equipment is really rebatched soap. I'm newer to soapmaking and had never heard of a Saipua recipe. I googled for this. Although I see that it is sold, I still don't understand exactly what it is or what paper might be used.
Would you mind describing what this saipua soap is?
The "milled soap"artisan soap that is possible to make at home without special commercial equipment is really rebatched soap. I'm newer to soapmaking and had never heard of a Saipua recipe. I googled for this. Although I see that it is sold, I still don't understand exactly what it is or what paper might be used.
Would you mind describing what this saipua soap is?
Carly B
Well-Known Member
From what I find online, Saipua is a vendor that sells 6oz bars of soap for $22.00. I'll pass on that one.
Their
Woof! Those prices are outside my budget too even allowing for the generous weight (6 oz) of the bar. But if the soap maker has a clientele who will pay those prices, more power to her.
Looks like she's using mainly olive, coconut, and castor, and shea butter as her main fats. These ingredients aren't out of the ordinary -- they're solid soap making ingredients that make good soap.
The photos show bars that look like cold process soap based on the colors and textures. I'd also say the maker encourages the soap to go into gel, based on the caramel color of the goat milk bar and the translucency at the edges of other bars.
I didn't read any claim that the maker actually mills the soap, although I didn't spend a lot of time at their website so I might have missed this claim. The soap bars don't look like milled soap to me -- the bars are obviously cut from a larger loaf, rather than formed by pressing into a mold as is done with milled soap.
Woof! Those prices are outside my budget too even allowing for the generous weight (6 oz) of the bar. But if the soap maker has a clientele who will pay those prices, more power to her.
Looks like she's using mainly olive, coconut, and castor, and shea butter as her main fats. These ingredients aren't out of the ordinary -- they're solid soap making ingredients that make good soap.
The photos show bars that look like cold process soap based on the colors and textures. I'd also say the maker encourages the soap to go into gel, based on the caramel color of the goat milk bar and the translucency at the edges of other bars.
I didn't read any claim that the maker actually mills the soap, although I didn't spend a lot of time at their website so I might have missed this claim. The soap bars don't look like milled soap to me -- the bars are obviously cut from a larger loaf, rather than formed by pressing into a mold as is done with milled soap.
akseattle
Well-Known Member
@Fishingerk1 , I found two things when I googled for a Saipua recipe.
First, is what @DeeAnna and @Carly B also found.
It looks like Saipua is a company out of New York that sells handcrafted soap and also makes flower arrangements (from flowers that they grow on their own farm.) I thought maybe the paper you referenced them using was to create an imprint on the soap or as an exfoliant inside the soap- my mind really got ahead of itself.... But, looks like Saipua wraps their soaps in really beautiful paper.
If this is the soap you were hoping to reproduce, the good news is that these are very common oils, easy to find and use. The bad news is Saipua make their own paper. So, they probably won't sell it to you- since that's their niche. But, there are many handmade paper vendors where you can get some beautiful paper.
I see that one of the owners, Sarah Ryhanen, is of Finnish descent and Saipua means "soap" in Finnish. Her company seems well respected. Her prices are a little steep, but to be honest, that's about in line with soap sold by LUSH in the Seattle area. I confess to having bought some in the past when going to a birthday party on short notice, and gifts weren't really expected. My older son was given some LUSH soap by a friend with lemon fragrance and brazilian sand that he loves and which i intend to copy one of these days ( I brought home some superfine sand from Celestun, Mexico for that purpose.) So, there is a market for this very high end priced soap.
The second thing I found is that there is a traditional Finnish sauna soap. It's made from vegetable oils and citric acid to harden it.
So, I don't know about the milled part- I think that's just re-batching. But, if its soap like Saipua, it should be easy enough for you to make some soap and wrap it in beautiful paper. I guess you can do the same with sauna soap.
I hope our input has been helpful to you! Good luck!
First, is what @DeeAnna and @Carly B also found.
It looks like Saipua is a company out of New York that sells handcrafted soap and also makes flower arrangements (from flowers that they grow on their own farm.) I thought maybe the paper you referenced them using was to create an imprint on the soap or as an exfoliant inside the soap- my mind really got ahead of itself.... But, looks like Saipua wraps their soaps in really beautiful paper.
If this is the soap you were hoping to reproduce, the good news is that these are very common oils, easy to find and use. The bad news is Saipua make their own paper. So, they probably won't sell it to you- since that's their niche. But, there are many handmade paper vendors where you can get some beautiful paper.
I see that one of the owners, Sarah Ryhanen, is of Finnish descent and Saipua means "soap" in Finnish. Her company seems well respected. Her prices are a little steep, but to be honest, that's about in line with soap sold by LUSH in the Seattle area. I confess to having bought some in the past when going to a birthday party on short notice, and gifts weren't really expected. My older son was given some LUSH soap by a friend with lemon fragrance and brazilian sand that he loves and which i intend to copy one of these days ( I brought home some superfine sand from Celestun, Mexico for that purpose.) So, there is a market for this very high end priced soap.
The second thing I found is that there is a traditional Finnish sauna soap. It's made from vegetable oils and citric acid to harden it.
So, I don't know about the milled part- I think that's just re-batching. But, if its soap like Saipua, it should be easy enough for you to make some soap and wrap it in beautiful paper. I guess you can do the same with sauna soap.
I hope our input has been helpful to you! Good luck!
Thank you. I really appreciate the time you took to research and get back to me. Very helpful!!! Has anyone heard about a young man who is developing soap to fight skin cancer? I think he received a very high award and was curious if anyone knows about the ingredients/
akseattle
Well-Known Member
@Fishingerk1 , I'm glad my post was helpful to you. Now, your question about cancer soap was way easier to find- like one quick google. Below is a link. The 15 year kid from Virginia is named Heman Bekele. I don't know what's in his soap, I suspect has gotten a patent. But, apparently the soap itself doesn't fight the cancer, rather it could be a "more accessible way to deliver medication to treat skin cancers, including melanoma,"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ancer-heman-bekele-time-magazine/74812811007/
An amazing accomplishment for this young person! I'm a sucker for looking things up on the internet. There is no need to wonder anymore , google can answer so much. Of course, there is always the danger of misinformation. But, this 15 year old seems real enough.
Now, what I want to know is: Where on earth do you get all these little tidbits of info that are so intriguing? ?!!
I have had melanoma and this interests me greatly! Im a curious person a designer by trade and always open to new ideas and I like highly curated products.
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I have had a few melanomas, and only just recently. The only way to remove them is either surgically, radiation or through immunotherapy (just finished) . The article said he wants to put imuiquod into soap to deliver that as a skin treatment for melanomas. This what I used as a cream and has to be put on a marked area of skin for months, the cream is expensive and only available via a script, the treatment is not new.
akseattle
Well-Known Member
@Relle, I didn't read all the way to the last paragraph. I also know very little about melenomas, except that my sister-in-law has been treated several times over the last 15 years or so. I know she receives radiation, and the melenomas are surgically removed. I don't know about the rest. Well, I think that what is new, is the idea that the medication can be delivered more inexpensively through this soap of his. Although, now that I think of it, since soap is a wash off product, not sure how that would be more effective than a more concentrated lotion?? Maybe in the future this wash off product would be more preventative?
anyway, Hemon Bekele persuaded someone, cuz they named him Time Kid of 2024!!
When I was 15 years old, I was trying to figure out how to cut school without getting caught so that I could sneak off with my boyfriend.
So, I'm impressed when young people are spending time thinking of how to improve the world!
anyway, Hemon Bekele persuaded someone, cuz they named him Time Kid of 2024!!
When I was 15 years old, I was trying to figure out how to cut school without getting caught so that I could sneak off with my boyfriend.
So, I'm impressed when young people are spending time thinking of how to improve the world!
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This product that is used now can't be a preventative, it only works on the cancer and not the surrounding skin, it has to be on the skin for 8-10 hrs and then washed off. It relies on the immune system to attack the cancer.Just looked at the label, comes from the UK, has to be kept below 25C you have to stay out of direct sunlight while using, I was inside all the time, you have to throw it out after 4wks and start a new one.So with all that I don't know how it could work in soap.
akseattle
Well-Known Member
@Relle, I don't know anything about cancer, or about cancer medications. In my second post about H. Bekele , it occurred to me that since soap is a wash off product, it seemed like a low probability that it would work. So, I agreed with you... not happening.
But, I admired young Bekele's effort. But, curious about his ingredients, I just googled and found another article about his soap- which is still under study:
https://oncodaily.com/stories/skin-... with active,skin cells and promoting renewal.
The article is detailed and optimistic. Maybe they just needed a topic. But, they describe BEKELE's ingredients and why his soap MIGHT work.
Actually, Bekele's soap seems to have everyday ingredients for zits and for exfoliating.
So, I really don't have a dog in this fight.
Fishingerk1 asked a question. I was intrigued. I commented. Then you commented. I became more intrigued and commented.
Maybe this kid just came up with zit soap for .50 a bar- which is a great price. Dang, I might buy it... Will it ever help cure cancer? who knows...
I probably need to stop thinking out loud....
a bad trait that runs in my family ....
But, I admired young Bekele's effort. But, curious about his ingredients, I just googled and found another article about his soap- which is still under study:
https://oncodaily.com/stories/skin-... with active,skin cells and promoting renewal.
The article is detailed and optimistic. Maybe they just needed a topic. But, they describe BEKELE's ingredients and why his soap MIGHT work.
Actually, Bekele's soap seems to have everyday ingredients for zits and for exfoliating.
So, I really don't have a dog in this fight.
Fishingerk1 asked a question. I was intrigued. I commented. Then you commented. I became more intrigued and commented.
Maybe this kid just came up with zit soap for .50 a bar- which is a great price. Dang, I might buy it... Will it ever help cure cancer? who knows...
I probably need to stop thinking out loud....
a bad trait that runs in my family ....
"While there is promising research behind Heman Bekele’s $0.50 Skin Cancer Treating Soap (SCTS), it is still in the testing phase and has not yet been FDA-approved. The soap shows potential in preventing skin cancer, but more research and clinical trials are needed before it can be considered an official preventive measure."
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He is obviously a wonderful kid...but don't get excited till you see a peer reviewed, double-blinded, clinical trial. I wish him the best.
P.S. Selling for 50 cents in a windowed box with a label. Now that boggles my mind. My wrapping paper is 50 cents per sheet!
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He is obviously a wonderful kid...but don't get excited till you see a peer reviewed, double-blinded, clinical trial. I wish him the best.
P.S. Selling for 50 cents in a windowed box with a label. Now that boggles my mind. My wrapping paper is 50 cents per sheet!
Do you have more info on how citric acid is used in this soap - is it added in a way that it stays as citric acid (after there's no NaOH left) or is it before that, leading to neutralization and sodium citrate? Got me curious about the hardness part
Edit: I did some research and it seems you get more or less the same result whether you add citric acid before or after saponification - it's capable of disrupting the peace inside the soap molecule and making it a different salt. So in theory that should produce sodium citrate either way
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akseattle
Well-Known Member
Oh, I use citric acid in every batch - to help with DOS and soap scum. But about the Finnish sauna soap you mentioned - if they really claim it adds hardness to their bars, I would take that with a grain of salt. Even if it does, I don't think it's that noticeable of a difference. It's probably mostly the selection of oils that makes the bars hard in their case.
Maybe what they meant is that with the citric acid added their soap doesn't turn into a gooey mess in highly humid areas and it's suitable for using in a sauna, thus making it a good choice and a hard enough bar for that specific application? That would make sense
Edit: spelling
I don't like going in saunas, so I am curious - do people use soap in saunas? The few times I've been in one, I don't recall seeing any water source available for rinsing off. Sorry this is OT, but I am curious.
After, not in.
That's what I thought. I think the wording is what confused me.
