Freezer help please!

[Annakathleen]

I have always gelled my soaps, really out of convenience. Workshop is a portable building in Se Ga and once I cut the AC, well, no insulation needed. Wanting to achieve vibrant colors and textures tops i wanted to try stopping gel. I cleared a spot in my deep freezer and made a trial loaf. I got a partial gel,, big ugly round dark spot in the center of the loaf. My lye water was prepped night before so it was cool, hard oils were maybe 90 degrees, just barely melted and combined with the soft room temp oils. Used a silicone liner in a wood loaf mod. Was a silk soap, color and floral fragrance added but no acceleration, if that matters. Any help is appreciated!

 

[Susie]

Did you freeze your mold before pouring the soap batter into it? If not, you probably should have.

 

[Annakathleen]

No, I didn't freeze it. I did just now cut the soap and wow....I am going to stick to gelling!!!! I'll mention, I've used a tried and true recipe I've made hundreds if not a couple thousand bars with. It is my recipe that comes out beautiful when I leave it sitting on my work bench, this is a first. Oh well, just wanted to try something different....if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Edit: That's oil in the center.

Which leads me to.....I pondered while making this bar, soap takes about 24 hrs to fully saponify. So I'll ask this question...how does the saponification process continue if it's fully frozen by hour 12 or so? I've made a lot of soap, just never tried the freezer method so I guess I never thought about it.

 

[kumudini]

First thing, preventing gel doesn't help you achieve vibrant colors, it gives you somewhat lighter colors and creamy look. You'd want to gel to get brighter colors. Second, this cavitation in the middle of loaf, I have just seen it the other day although I don't remember who posted it. That was also put in the freezer. It made me think that may be its all the fat that's not bound to lye migrating to one place and congealing and then once absorbed, leaving an empty space behind.Just a wild guess.

 

[SplendorSoaps]

I know it wasn't the look you were going for (and great questions about freezing to prevent gel stage BTW), but I think that the colors you chose look really cool with the partial gel. It almost has a gradient kind of a look. If the rest of the loaf survived without the oily problem area in the middle, I'd say that it makes a lovely design.

 

[Dorymae]

Hmm, that crack in the middle looks like zombie teeth, that usually happens with overheating! This was in the freezer? Was the middle still warm? Very strange.

 

[Annakathleen]

Unfortunately it is right through the center, every dang bar! So, maybe useable at home. Can't sell. Yes, DoryMae was in freezer from pour, almost 24 hrs. I'm baffled.

 

[zolveria]

you can sell it. for cheaper.. misbehaved soap that what i call mine.. i also add a little education tag of what happened.

 

[Relle]

First thing, preventing gel doesn't help you achieve vibrant colors, it gives you somewhat lighter colors and creamy look. You'd want to gel to get brighter colors. QUOTE]

I disagree with the above information. I always non gel my soap and I get vibrant colours and they are definitely not light. Have a look in the photo gallery to see the colours I get.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=48513
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35436
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=31300

I made a batch yesterday and have a circle in the middle where it heated up, my last batch of the same FO did not, I do the same method each time, all I can think of this time was I was a bit slow fiddling around with a cocoa line and took a while before I got it in the frig. The darkness of it gelling will fade with cure and sometimes you can't even see it after a while.

You said you used a floral FO, they do heat up so you have to get them in the frig quick.
Don't give up on non gelling after only one try, give it more of a chance. I love it.

 

[IrishLass]

Relle, your soaps are absolutely gorgeous!

I have the same experience as Vkumudini, though- my colors come out more vibrant in my gelled soaps as compared to my soaps that are not gelled, especially my red mica colorant and ultramarine violet. The red comes out a gorgeous, deep, blood red when gelled, but pink when not gelled, and it's pretty much the same with my violet. I wonder if it is because of the type of colorant, or maybe the supplier?

IrishLass

 

[cmzaha]

I am betting your floral fragrance overheated severely. In such cases even gelling could have given you the same or even worse problem. It could have completely separated in the mold or given you big alligator toothies. When I have an fo that is a know severe heater I put my mold in the freezer as Dorymae mentioned, chill my lye, chill my oils until they just start to solidify, this is only if I am not using hard butters, chill my fo a bit. I then mix my oils and lye separate out if I want colors and add the color. I usually only do 2 colors because I do not want my batter to start heating up to much when I add the fo the main batch. Then I add in the fo, stir it in well, pour into the mold quickly, move the mold to the freezer asap. Figured this method out when I was trying to work with a particular coconut fo that would overheat before I could get it into the freezer
I would not sell a soap with that type of separation. Also it will usually takes months for the softness around the separation to harden

 

[Relle]

Relle, your soaps are absolutely gorgeous!

I have the same experience as Vkumudini, though- my colors come out more vibrant in my gelled soaps as compared to my soaps that are not gelled, especially my red mica colorant and ultramarine violet. The red comes out a gorgeous, deep, blood red when gelled, but pink when not gelled, and it's pretty much the same with my violet. I wonder if it is because of the type of colorant, or maybe the supplier?

IrishLass

That might be the issue, my ultramarine violet comes out a pretty mauve.

 

[not_ally]

Pay attention to Carolyn's post, she is really great on practical problem-solving.

 

[dixiedragon]

Gorgeous soap! Saw a post on another forum of a similar problem, the soaper painted mica on the hole in the middle and called it "gold mine soap" and sold it for $6 a bar. I think she mixed the mica with a bit of glycerin so it would stick? I'd totally do that and call it "Crystal Cave" soap or "Fairy Cave" soap.

 

[Annakathleen]

Thanks everyone. I may try freezing a mold and not using florals next time I try it! I'd just like to be able to soap in all different techniques! It was Japanese Cherry Blossom scent and it's a light scent, in hindsight I may have been heavy handed with it...have a new men's soap in a mold now ive never soaped with, allowing it to gel. Hope it doesn't overheat...luckily it's uncovered. Gold mine soap...I LOVE IT!

 

[skayc1]

For those of you who put your mold in the freezer before, is it mainly the wooden molds? do you also freeze the silicone molds before when working with a fo that caused overheating in the past?

 

[Mommy]

how on earth does anything saponify in the freezer? sorry I know I'm bumping this.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Slowly

In fairness, there is the time when it is just put in where it is still getting warm from the process as the cold is starting to work its way in, then the process slows down a lot until you pull it out and then keep it cool but not frozen. Saponification does take a while though