First batch - subbing oil?

[Oregon Goat Momma]

Getting ready to make my first batch! I received some soaping things for Christmas to get me started. I'm not seeing beginner recipes with these items, and am wondering if it would be a mistake to make some substitutions this early. I have been playing around with the Brambleberry Lye Calculator, and it seems straight forward enough. Is this a newbie false sense of security?

The recipe calls for olive oil, coconut oil, and palm oil. I'm wondering about substituting the palm kernel flakes that I have for the palm oil (I don't have palm oil at this time). I also have rice bran oil and sweet almond oil on the shelf. I thought I might reduce the coconut oil and use some of these, as well. Does this all sound acceptable?

Thanks!

 

[dibbles]

Palm kernel isn’t a substitute for palm oil. It’s more like coconut oil. You can use both, but it’s best to keep the combined total to 25% or less I think. If you don’t have an objection to animal fats, lard is a good sub for palm, makes wonderful soap and is available at the grocery store. You can also use vegetable shortening made with palm. I don’t use it, so someone else will most likely be along that knows more about.

 

[Arimara]

Palm kernel isn’t a substitute for palm oil. It’s more like coconut oil. You can use both, but it’s best to keep the combined total to 25% or less I think. If you don’t have an objection to animal fats, lard is a good sub for palm, makes wonderful soap and is available at the grocery store. You can also use vegetable shortening made with palm. I don’t use it, so someone else will most likely be along that knows more about.

Palm kernal flakes are very cleansing and have a higher cleansing number than the regular oil. I would actually keep that number under 20% if PKO flakes are used and if combined with coconut.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

The Spectrum brand of all palm vegetable shortening is available in some grocery stores. It’s very similar to the no-stir palm oil I now buy from Soapers Choice. I agree that lard would be an excellent substitute if you are okay with using animal fats. The Great Value shortening from Walmart (lard and tallow plus a little soybean oil) also makes great soap and can be subbed in for palm oil.

 

[Jersey Girl]

The Spectrum brand of all palm vegetable shortening is available in some grocery stores. It’s very similar to the no-stir palm oil I now buy from Soapers Choice. I agree that lard would be an excellent substitute if you are okay with using animal fats. The Great Value shortening from Walmart (lard and tallow plus a little soybean oil) also makes great soap and can be subbed in for palm oil.

@Mobjack Bay Apologies for butting in, but I have a question about the Walmart shortening. Is it prone to DOS because of the soybean? I have some I bought a while back but have been putting off using it. Wanted to try it because of the tallow.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I initially bought the lard tallow shortening by mistake last fall, thinking it was the palm-based version, but then liked the soap I made with it so much that I bought more. I haven’t had any DOS issues, but that’s with ROE and EDTA in the recipe. I don’t think this particular shortening is in the SMF calculator. For my initial soaps I used the GV palm-based shortening as a proxy (more on that here), but have since created a custom oil because I like to know the FA profiles for my recipes.
Here’s a photo I just took of soaps made on 1/4/20:

 

[Jersey Girl]

I initially bought the lard tallow shortening by mistake last fall, thinking it was the palm-based version, but then liked the soap I made with it so much that I bought more. I haven’t had any DOS issues, but that’s with ROE and EDTA in the recipe. I don’t think this particular shortening is in the SMF calculator. For my initial soaps I used the GV palm-based shortening as a proxy (more on that here), but have since created a custom oil because I like to know the FA profiles for my recipes.
Here’s a photo I just took of soaps made on 1/4/20:
View attachment 46920

Wow! Beautiful soap! I’m going to have to break open that can and try a batch. I’ve been toying with ordering some tallow. I love using lard and pretty much use it as the top ingredient in all my recipes. It really does add a luxurious feel to the soap. Who would have thunk...pig fat. Lol.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Wow! Beautiful soap! I’m going to have to break open that can and try a batch. I’ve been toying with ordering some tallow. I love using lard and pretty much use it as the top ingredient in all my recipes. It really does add a luxurious feel to the soap. Who would have thunk...pig fat. Lol.

I used 50% shortening, 10% lard and 15% CO in that recipe, with the rest being liquid oils, but I also used coconut milk powder which increases the CO fat a little (I don’t do a correction for the added fat). At 33% stearic + palmitic FAs (based on my estimation of the FA profiles for the shortening), the recipe makes a relatively long lasting soap that also makes a lather I like without being drying.

 

[Oregon Goat Momma]

Thanks for all of the input. Obviously, there is so much to learn! I'll get some lard and Spectrum shortening while I'm out today. And if one of you would take just a moment, I'd love a quick deciphering of the abbreviations in your discussion - I think they're all in this post, below. I'd just love to better be able to follow everything you're saying!

I initially bought the lard tallow shortening by mistake last fall, thinking it was the palm-based version, but then liked the soap I made with it so much that I bought more. I haven’t had any DOS issues, but that’s with ROE and EDTA in the recipe. I don’t think this particular shortening is in the SMF calculator. For my initial soaps I used the GV palm-based shortening as a proxy (more on that here), but have since created a custom oil because I like to know the FA profiles for my recipes.
Here’s a photo I just took of soaps made on 1/4/20:
View attachment 46920

 

[dibbles]

Palm kernal flakes are very cleansing and have a higher cleansing number than the regular oil. I would actually keep that number under 20% if PKO flakes are used and if combined with coconut.

That's what I said, except 25% combined total of coconut and palm kernel would be fine for me. Palm kernel is a little less cleansing than coconut. The main issue is that OP is wanting to replace palm oil without any other hard oils available. As it's a first batch she will have to determine for herself how much coconut and/or palm kernel she likes.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Thanks for all of the input. Obviously, there is so much to learn! I'll get some lard and Spectrum shortening while I'm out today. And if one of you would take just a moment, I'd love a quick deciphering of the abbreviations in your discussion - I think they're all in this post, below. I'd just love to better be able to follow everything you're saying!

Alphabet soup

There’s an acronym and abbreviation translation thread, here:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/But it doesn’t include everything.
You can learn more about DOS, a sign of rancidity, and using ROE and tetrasodium EDTA to cut down on it, here:
https://classicbells.com/soap/rancidity.asphttps://classicbells.com/soap/ROE.asphttps://classicbells.com/soap/EDTA.asp
I use FA as an acronym for “fatty acids”
CO is for coconut oil
SMF for SoapMakingFriend calculator
GV for Walmart Great Value line of products

 

[dibbles]

And if one of you would take just a moment, I'd love a quick deciphering of the abbreviations in your discussion - I think they're all in this post, below. I'd just love to better be able to follow everything you're saying!

Here's a list of acronyms commonly used: The Acronym and Abbreviation Definition Thread...
Not listed EDTA has a big, long name and is used in soap as a chelator. Here is a link to @DeeAnna's Soapy Stuff page. It is full of information, and using chelators is included there: Soapy Stuff: Soapy Stuff
FA = fatty acid

edit: @Mobjack Bay is faster!

 

[Jersey Girl]

Thanks for all of the input. Obviously, there is so much to learn! I'll get some lard and Spectrum shortening while I'm out today. And if one of you would take just a moment, I'd love a quick deciphering of the abbreviations in your discussion - I think they're all in this post, below. I'd just love to better be able to follow everything you're saying!

This is a great thread to help with the abbreviations.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/Tetrasodium EDTA is a chelator that helps prevent soap scum And also helps prevent rancidity when used with ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin), an antioxidant There are many posts on these ingredients if you do a search.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Looks like we were all responding together. Lol

 

[Oregon Goat Momma]

Cool! Thank you!

 

[Arimara]

That's what I said, except 25% combined total of coconut and palm kernel would be fine for me. Palm kernel is a little less cleansing than coconut. The main issue is that OP is wanting to replace palm oil without any other hard oils available. As it's a first batch she will have to determine for herself how much coconut and/or palm kernel she likes.

I only mentioned 20% due my experience with that. There's something about the flakes where they are quite drying. I was also refering to total cleansing oil amounts.