First batch recipe+FO supplier preferences

[sunny_]

hello!:bunny:

1. For my first batch of soap I want to keep it simple, so after some research I decided I want make this recipe:

Coconut oil 24%
Olive oil 40%
Palm oil 32%
Castor oil 5%

superfat 5%

what about sodium lactate? would you recommend a beginner to use it in a first batch?
I want a foaming, hard bar, and a workable, easy to swirl batter. any recommendations? advices?

2. Which FO supplier you prefer? BB or WSP? which one has better smelling fragrances?

thanks!!

 

[shunt2011]

I would up the palm oil to 40% and drop Olive some. I don't like high olive soap. Otherwise I say go with it. I might also up the SF to 6-7% with that much CO. But give it a try.

Welcome to the forum. Go to the introduction section and tell us a little about yourself. Also, I highly recommend reading the last 10 pages or so of the beginners section and the lye soap section. You'll find a whole lot of useful information.

 

[sunny_]

I would up the palm oil to 40% and drop Olive some. I don't like high olive soap. Otherwise I say go with it. I might also up the SF to 6-7% with that much CO. But give it a try.

Welcome to the forum. Go to the introduction section and tell us a little about yourself. Also, I highly recommend reading the last 10 pages or so of the beginners section and the lye soap section. You'll find a whole lot of useful information.

thanks!
why don't you like high olive soaps? thanks for your advice. what is the common % of palm oil soapers usually use in soaps?
thanks!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I usually use 50% of a hard oil like palm or lard, then 5% castor and 15-20% CO. The rest is olive.

You could put in some additives, but I would make a small batch without first of all. This allows YOU to see the difference, rather than taking our word on it. I would also suggest making only one change per batch, so that you can see what each change does - that is a very good learning tool.

 

[anshika154]

thanks!
why don't you like high olive soaps? thanks for your advice. what is the common % of palm oil soapers usually use in soaps?
thanks!

Up to 40% in CP

 

[shunt2011]

thanks!
why don't you like high olive soaps? thanks for your advice. what is the common % of palm oil soapers usually use in soaps?
thanks!

I use between 40-50%. I don't like high olive for two reasons. Longer cure once you get into the 50% or more and can be a bit slimy to me.

I'm one who doesn't like castille as it's slimy and feels drying to my skin.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Your percentages add up to 101.

I agree with the others that olive is a bit too high. Whether you like it or not, the biggest problem with making a high-olive soap for your first time is that the more olive you use the more cure time you need. You're going to be chomping at the bit to use your first soap, and you'll probably use it before its best.

I would drop olive to about 25%. With coconut at 25% and castor at 5%, that leaves 45% for a "hard" oil. You could do all that with palm, but I think a little better would be 10% cocoa butter and 35% palm.

The above is all assuming you want all-vegetable soap. If you're open to animal fats, of course you should put some lard in there! Filling that 45% space with lard will make a fine soap.

 

[sunny_]

haha yeah I typed 5 for castor oil instead of 4. you noticed
What I don't want is a fast moving batter that will trace and thicken very fast, because I want to make a simple design, so more hard oils might not contribute... how about this recipe?
40% Palm oil
31% olive oil
24% coconut oil
5% castor oil

thanks!

 

[BrewerGeorge]

That's pretty good, but it's not what is generally considered around here to be ideal. It'll still be quite nice, I say go for it.

However, I have to say that trying a design on your first batch is...ambitious. First time soaping is a lot like first time sex. You've seen all the videos, talked to all your friends, and thought about it a lot. But the first time you actually start really doing it you're nervous, tentative and sweaty. :mrgreen: Not the time to try something fancy. Successful swirls rely on timing and judgement. Unless you're a zen master or something, you'll have enough to worry about.

Lots of people will recommend making the first batch without both fragrance and color, but I don't go that far. A single color of mica or clay and a fragrance that's known to not accelerate (for sure!) can be easily added to the oils before the lye - and the real action - begins, so they're no trouble and the end result is more fun.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble, because this is exciting stuff. And this is the one place I can say that without getting strange looks. But you don't have to do it all the first time, and you can always make more as soon as your mold is free. I think I made three batches the first week I started, and that third one goes a lot smoother than the first.

 

[sunny_]

lol nice comparison
I Make lotions, shampoos and hair conditioner so I know that excitement, but I have never tried CP soap. I am definitely not a zen master that I know lol
So in you opinion- this recipe will be workable in some level?
thanks for your help

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I'm a lard and tallow guy, so I haven't used palm by itself enough to give you a reliable answer about how much working time to expect. I make a vegan soap for one of my daughters with palm relatively regularly, but even that is hydrogenated shortening instead of straight palm. I wanted to answer because it felt like you were asking me specifically, but hopefully someone else with more palm experience can give you a firmer answer.

 

[sunny_]

OK, I have done some research on the website and have found that Lard will suit my needs better than palm oil. So I ordered a 64 oz. batch of it from Walmart (Armour lard)
I found a recipe in an other thread which many liked and said it was just perfect.
50% Lard
25% Olive oil
20% Coconut oil
5% Castor oil

What oils can be a good substitute for some/all of the Olive oil?
At what % it is recommended to use Shea Butter in this kind of recipe?
Sodium Lactate- is it a good idea to use it in a first batch?

thank you so much for your help

 

[dibbles]

That is a good recipe. If you want to sub some of the olive oil, I'd start with 10% of avocado or a high oleic sunflower or safflower since they are usually available without having to order. But, you don't have to sub any of the olive at all. It might be good to make the recipe as is, and then in subsequent batches sub out 10% of the olive for something else to compare. For your first batch, I'd skip the shea butter, or keep it to 5%. I use sodium lactate in all my soaps @ 1 tsp PPO. I do think it helps with the unmolding. I also gel. I stir the SL into my cooled lye solution before adding to the oils. It's never caused a problem. If you don't have it, you can dissolve salt in your liquid before adding the NaOH.

 

[IrishLass]

Call me the odd one out, but I personally saw nothing wrong with the recipe you first posted. One of my favorite recipes uses 50% OO and it doesn't get slimy or need a longer cure than my normal 4 to 6 weeks to be a great soap.

A good thing I like to point out to new soapers when it comes to asking for advice on soap recipes is that you will get a variety of different responses based on folk's own personal likes/dislikes, which means that just because they don't like too much of this oil or that fat doesn't necessarily mean that you will not like it either, or that it will make a bad soap. That's the great thing about making your own- you can tailor it to your own likes.

Having said that, I agree that subbing the palm out for lard is a great choice.


IrishLass

 

[BrewerGeorge]

That is a good recipe. If you want to sub some of the olive oil, I'd start with 10% of avocado or a high oleic sunflower or safflower since they are usually available without having to order. But, you don't have to sub any of the olive at all. It might be good to make the recipe as is, and then in subsequent batches sub out 10% of the olive for something else to compare. For your first batch, I'd skip the shea butter, or keep it to 5%. I use sodium lactate in all my soaps @ 1 tsp PPO. I do think it helps with the unmolding. I also gel. I stir the SL into my cooled lye solution before adding to the oils. It's never caused a problem. If you don't have it, you can dissolve salt in your liquid before adding the NaOH.

QFT

I've used olive for 2 years, but I've just now begun experimenting with HO safflower (LouAna brand). If the first batch is any indication, it's going to completely replace olive for me from now on. I'm pursuing this because safflower is about a third cheaper than olive, and also clearer so the soap is whiter. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with olive. You've got that Golden Ticket recipe now - at least according to us Lardy Cultists around here, anyway. :wave:

 

[sunny_]

O.K, so the olive oil stays
The only thing I'm trying to figure out now is the best lye concentration for having time to mold my soap and not having the soap accelerating too fast on me. I want it to move slow so I can work calmly with it and get to know the formula for future swirling+ in case I'll use an accelerating FO.
What is the best % of lye for a slow moving batter from your experience with lard recipes? from your experience, At what temp it is best to soap with the ingredients in this recipe?
thank you very much!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would say a 30 to 33% solution would be fine. I don't often swirl so I tend more to 35%. They might seem like small changes, but a couple of % can make a big difference to how it behaves

 

[dibbles]

I agree with TEG. I probably use 30% most often, sometimes up to 33%, sometimes full water. I almost always have some kind of swirl going on so I don't often have a higher lye concentration.

As to temps, and I still take temperatures even though a lot of people here don't, I usually aim for 100-110 and usually closer to 100. I will soap cooler, but usually not much warmer than 110. For your first batch, I think 110 would be a good starting point.

 

[sunny_]

I would say a 30 to 33% solution would be fine. I don't often swirl so I tend more to 35%. They might seem like small changes, but a couple of % can make a big difference to how it behaves

I agree with TEG. I probably use 30% most often, sometimes up to 33%, sometimes full water. I almost always have some kind of swirl going on so I don't often have a higher lye concentration.

As to temps, and I still take temperatures even though a lot of people here don't, I usually aim for 100-110 and usually closer to 100. I will soap cooler, but usually not much warmer than 110. For your first batch, I think 110 would be a good starting point.

Thank you both!
When you all say "soap cold", you mean the temp of the oils is less than a 100? The temp of the lye solution should be equal to the oils? or just room temp?

 

[BattleGnome]

Thank you both!
When you all say "soap cold", you mean the temp of the oils is less than a 100? The temp of the lye solution should be equal to the oils? or just room temp?

I generally interpret soaping cold at 100F or less. If you use hard oils it would be taking consideration to the temperature that the oils melt. Lard is usually around 100F while coconut is around 76F (unless specifically altered). I find Shea to be similar to lard for temperature, I don't tend to use other hard oils and can't reference the numbers for you (easily).

If it means anything for you at this point, I tend to soap around 116F. I came to this number from Soap Queen videos where she stresses having the oils and lye within 10-20 degrees of each other. I will stress that this isn't necessary. It is good practice to know what your temperatures are to control what you want to happen. There are methods that use the heat from the lye solution to melt the hard oils or the common method of letting your lye solution cool off overnight. As you learn more about your personal soaping habits you will be able to decide which numbers work for you. 116F just happens to be where my ingredients reach the temperature I'm most comfortable manipulating the soap batter.

(Also to agree with everyone else, I tend to use a 33% lye concentration)