First Batch questions

[AxtFarm]

Hello,

I've started my soap journey to complement my goat farm business. Technically I only wanted to breed goats and sell the kids, but that doesn't bring in enough revenue on it's own and selling milk by the gallon doesn't reward my time spent with enough revenue so here I am trying to learn something I never thought I would try.

Here are my goals:
*Find a recipe that will work for most everything and can then be customized by colorants and essential oil scents
*Good bar that cleanses and bubbles enough to be used in the shower while also being creamy & conditioning, hard enough that it lasts an acceptable amount of time, is good for sensitive/dry skin, and is good for eczema.
*Use fresh goats milk (frozen) as a full water replacement (unless it's recommended to only use milk as a partial replacement)

I bought a 5lb slab mold with a cutter insert that is supposed to give me 3.5"x2.25"x1.5" 5oz soap bars and I plan to have an acrylic stamp made so I can stamp my farm logo on the bars of soap.

Here is a recipe (attached) that I came up with and some of my reasoning behind it:

Coconut oil for cleansing and bubbles
Aloe butter for cleansing, bubbles, & because aloe soap is the only bar soap I've used that keeps my skin from itching (I also read I could freeze aloe vera gel and use it in replace of water....possible half frozen goat milk, half frozen aloe vera...?)
Olive oil & palm oil because they seem to be obvious choices for bar soap
Sunflower oil because I've read it's a very good compliment to Olive oil
Crisco (w/palm) because it seems to be a good, inexpensive filler


What I don't want to happen is to make a batch and have to watch 4-6 weeks for it to cure only to find out that it's terrible lol

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[earlene]

Actually, I would not use Crisco. I don't find it to be inexpensive, and it has too much soybean oil in it to produce a hard soap. You actually have a lot of linoleic acid in that formula, which is going to make your soap more prone to rancidity.

I would NOT use Aloe Butter. It is actually Coconut oil mixed with aloe extract, so it has mostly lauric and myristic acids that add to cleansing, but for an unreasonably expensive amount of money. You are better off using Aloe Vera juice from Walmart (in the pharmacy section at my local Walmart) in place of water. Of course that means you'd have to cut down on the Goat's milk, so probably not the best plan if you want to make Goats Milk soap. Still I would not waste my money on Aloe Butter. See link for Aloe Butter & check out the ingredients.

Instead of Crisco and Aloe Butter, I would use Cocoa Butter, or you could try Shea Butter or Mango Butter. They are actual made from the nuts they are named after, without mixing in any other oils, and they add stearic acid of which your formula has little.

There will be unknown superfat from the goats milk, so I would use no more than the default 5% SF setting, but probably less. However, as an inexperienced soap maker using the default setting may be more comfortable. But I would not go higher than the default 5% when adding extra fat in the form of whatever liquid replacement you may choose. Fats in milks, and other fat-containing additives do up the superfat, even if you don't actually know how much fat is in the additive. You can later learn to estimate the extra fat, but for now, just be aware it exists.

I would probably add 5% Castor Oil to support lather.

So I'd go with something more like this:

SF default setting (5%) + unknown SF from GM
Lye concentration 33%
30% Palm
20% Coconut Oil (personally, I'd use 15%, but you already had high CO with the combo of Aloe Butter)
15% Cocoa Butter
30% Olive (or HO Sunflower or a combination since that's what you want)
5% Castor Oil

This would give a harder bar (45 vs 40) and longer lasting (31 vs 25). And the linoleic acid is only 6 vs 20, so less prone to rancidity. I also use this soap calculator to ID longevity (long lastingness of the resulting soap)

In addition to this, I recommend you start with a small batch, say 500 grams, to test your soap. Make sure to give a good month's cure and then observe it over the course of a year to identify any problems that may come up over time, watching for long term performance and rancidity, etc. I advise against selling soap you haven't tested the formula for over the course of a year, because you need to be sure your soap will survive time and not turn rancid or in other ways not live up the high standards.

If you like the resulting soap, ask for some volunteers to try it out and to give you honest feedback. If you choose to alter the recipe, then test it out in the same way. As long as you are still developing the formula, keep the batches small. Once you settle on a reliable and satisfactory formula, then I'd suggest starting to make larger batches.

 

[AxtFarm]

Thank you for your feedback. I could use Shea butter in most cases, sub in mango for summer tropical bars, cocoa in winter for hot chocolate bars.

I also want to try a high coconut oil % sea salt soap bar with ocean/beach fragrance oil.... something like 50% coconut, 20% olive, 15% palm, 10% mango butter, 5% castor, & small sea salt pieces mixed in.

As far as aloe...I did some more digging and found aloe vera gel as an alternative people use once the mixture is at a light trace. I was thinking maybe start with 90% goat milk at the start and then doing 10% aloe gel at the end...this wouldn't be in all bars, but the specialty aloe bars. Is that a reasonable way to go about it?

 

[Zing]

Welcome! So basically you want what I've been searching for, a bubbly, long-lasting, nice for sensitive skin, etc. soap! Listen to @earlene, she's a guru. But I've gotta break it to ya, after several years of soaping, I continue to struggle with patience. And yes, waiting for the cure and then testing and then having to refine some more, it's all part of this soapy thang. Enjoy your journey -- learn from each batch and take detailed notes.

 

[earlene]

I'll let someone else more experienced with salt bars address that recipe. I've only made a couple of batches and used a more traditional high CO, high SF & high Salt content route.

I think you would be better to add the salt after you reach a thicker trace, as the salt is heavy and with a thicker trace it will stay in suspension while the soap hardens. If added at thin trace, it will sink to the bottom.

 

[amd]

Please don't run before you can walk. You seem to have a lot of ideas going before you even begin the actual skill of making soap. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but as Earlene said, you should really spend a good year testing recipes, and then making sure those recipes are shelf stable before you begin selling.

Start with a basic recipe - most of my soaps for the first year were unscented and uncolored so that I could properly focus on the recipe and making process itself. Once you have a good handle on the practice of making soap, then you can begin to delve into your ideas and make small batches to perfect them before graduating up to making large batches. I would even go as far as to suggest that your first batch(es) be without milk, just use straight water. Using milks in soapmaking brings a lot of different experiences with trace, pour, etc., and it's better to have a feel for how soap without milk comes together to understand how it reacts differently with milks.

 

[AxtFarm]

Thanks for your response amd....I agree, my career is marketing, with that research and development goes hand in hand with it. I'm looking at this from a marketing/business plan perspective. My goal is to research and develop soap(s) that can turn a profit so our farm can create enough revenue to be considered a business. Having a quality product is a must because that goes hand in hand with our quality adga goats we sell.

From what I'm gathering developing a soap that "checks all our boxes" won't bring in any revenue for a long time. I assume the alternative to "checking our boxes" is to try several recipes from other people that are proven until we find one we like and then make small alterations to it so we can have multiple scents, colors, and seasonal soap bars.

Am I on the right track?

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Hello & Welcome AxtFarm.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Enjoy Your Journey' It's the love & passion of creating soap that captures your heart strings.
Happy Soaping

 

[AxtFarm]

Interestingly I'm having a hard time finding a goat soap recipe that is using only the oils I'm wanting to use unless it also includes beeswax. I found one on youtube that used powdered milk and interestingly enough it's almost identical to earlene's recommendation. So my first two test batches will be trying those two variations and using cocoa butter so that hopefully it has a nice smell without me having to use fragrance. I should receive all my tools/ingredients next week so we can start playing around with it.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I assume the alternative to "checking our boxes" is to try several recipes from other people that are proven until we find one we like and then make small alterations to it so we can have multiple scents, colors, and seasonal soap bars.

Am I on the right track?

Yes! I think so! I made GM soap and lotion and lip balm for a wholesale customer in Mobile for 10 years. The one thing missing from your business plan is the addition of lotion and lip balm - both of which have a better profit margin than soap and can carry you through the dry spells. Kudos for planning a seasonal bar. Customers seem to like that.

I hope @Basil weighs in. She is a new member who has goats too and has been making and selling GM soap for a few years. She is trying 10% soy wax in her formula to help retain scent. Note: Essential Oils are known to fade.

@earlene's advice is sound and I'm happy to see you take her advice on making small batches to start with. She forgot to mention, KEEP GOOD NOTES.

I happen to be a bit stumped by the issue of adding aloe to the batch. It does come in powder form, so there's that. I've used both the powder and the Walmart aloe juice in soap and lotion with good results and no problems. But I've never used it in GM bars. It's worth a test drive, to my mind at least. I'd be interested in knowing what was in the aloe bar you liked? Was it a GM soap?

Tried & True Recipes to try and to tweak to your heart's content:

ZNSC is a castile made with Faux Sea Water. "Castile" has label appeal as does "Tea Tree" essential oil. I make this once a year at a customer's request. I use the 85% Olive + 10% Coconut + 5% Castor variation and add Tea Tree essential oil. Might be good for eczema?
The Basic Trinity of Oils T&T formula is a great Starter Formula to build on. I made it recently for my DIL's father who could no longer get his favorite mail-order soap. That formula is a winner just as it is.
Zany's Palm Olive - This is the recipe we developed for my Mobile wholesale customers -- without their tweaks. Just the basic bar was my DH's favorite all over plus shampoo bar. It made his white hair shine with no dingy yellow. Note: Special factors come into play when using soap as shampoo.

Before signing off, I have to say how much I like your AXT Farm logo. Elegant & classy. Here's hoping your soap rises to the challenge set by your logo!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Popping in here to say it's better to use aloe juice than aloe gel. Aloe gel is not natural and contains gellifying agents ( I made that word up!). I liked your idea off splitting the aloe juice 50/50 with the goat's milk for the lye water.
@earlene's suggestions sound good as a starter, as does @amd 's regarding starting off basic and adding new things once you know how a basic recipe performs. Having said that, I've never made an unscented batch of soap. My first soap had three essential oils in it ( one of which was an accelerator, which i had no idea about until after the fact). I see no problems in scenting your soap as long as you keep it simple with a non-accelerating fragrance. How about lemongrass EO? It's not overly expensive and it holds quite well.
Regarding colour - you may find that having a natural goat's milk soap is enough and you may never need colour. You could add a bit of texture down the line by adding a tablespoon or two of ground oatmeal or something instead - 'Goat and Oat' soap .

 

[AxtFarm]

Yes! I think so! I made GM soap and lotion and lip balm for a wholesale customer in Mobile for 10 years. The one thing missing from your business plan is the addition of lotion and lip balm - both of which have a better profit margin than soap and can carry you through the dry spells. Kudos for planning a seasonal bar. Customers seem to like that.

I hope @Basil weighs in. She is a new member who has goats too and has been making and selling GM soap for a few years. She is trying 10% soy wax in her formula to help retain scent. Note: Essential Oils are known to fade.

@earlene's advice is sound and I'm happy to see you take her advice on making small batches to start with. She forgot to mention, KEEP GOOD NOTES.

I happen to be a bit stumped by the issue of adding aloe to the batch. It does come in powder form, so there's that. I've used both the powder and the Walmart aloe juice in soap and lotion with good results and no problems. But I've never used it in GM bars. It's worth a test drive, to my mind at least. I'd be interested in knowing what was in the aloe bar you liked? Was it a GM soap?

Tried & True Recipes to try and to tweak to your heart's content:

ZNSC is a castile made with Faux Sea Water. "Castile" has label appeal as does "Tea Tree" essential oil. I make this once a year at a customer's request. I use the 85% Olive + 10% Coconut + 5% Castor variation and add Tea Tree essential oil. Might be good for eczema?
The Basic Trinity of Oils T&T formula is a great Starter Formula to build on. I made it recently for my DIL's father who could no longer get his favorite mail-order soap. That formula is a winner just as it is.
Zany's Palm Olive - This is the recipe we developed for my Mobile wholesale customers -- without their tweaks. Just the basic bar was my DH's favorite all over plus shampoo bar. It made his white hair shine with no dingy yellow. Note: Special factors come into play when using soap as shampoo.

Before signing off, I have to say how much I like your AXT Farm logo. Elegant & classy. Here's hoping your soap rises to the challenge set by your logo!

Thanks for all the good advice & recipes. I really like the idea of aloe powder.

 

[AxtFarm]

Popping in here to say it's better to use aloe juice than aloe gel. Aloe gel is not natural and contains gellifying agents ( I made that word up!). I liked your idea off splitting the aloe juice 50/50 with the goat's milk for the lye water.
@earlene's suggestions sound good as a starter, as does @amd 's regarding starting off basic and adding new things once you know how a basic recipe performs. Having said that, I've never made an unscented batch of soap. My first soap had three essential oils in it ( one of which was an accelerator, which i had no idea about until after the fact). I see no problems in scenting your soap as long as you keep it simple with a non-accelerating fragrance. How about lemongrass EO? It's not overly expensive and it holds quite well.
Regarding colour - you may find that having a natural goat's milk soap is enough and you may never need colour. You could add a bit of texture down the line by adding a tablespoon or two of ground oatmeal or something instead - 'Goat and Oat' soap .

Thanks for the info and advice!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I liked your idea off splitting the aloe juice 50/50 with the goat's milk for the lye water.

I like the "idea" too. I'm just not all that sure if it would be a bit of botanical + protein overload for the bar. ???

( I made that word up!)

I never would have guessed!

Regarding colour - you may find that having a natural goat's milk soap is enough and you may never need colour.

I agree, although I once did a Rainbow GM soap for a special "Gay Pride" event. Sold out quickly.
Regarding color: In general, GM soap tends to be varying degrees of tan. If you want brown, use a Vanilla based FO (Fragrance Oil) Vanilla-scented soaps sell! If you want white, you need to "prevent gel" by soaping cool and by sticking it in the fridge overnight after pouring. For golden yellow to orange, use Red Palm Oil (liquid) with the Trinity of Oils formula. I buy it at an African Market here in the Denver area but you should be able to find it online.

You could add a bit of texture down the line by adding a tablespoon or two of ground oatmeal or something instead - 'Goat and Oat' soap

Or Honey, Oats & Goatmilk aka HOG soap. Note: Best to HP (Hot Process) that one. Warm the honey with an equal amount of water before adding it to the batch just before pouring into the mold. Honey is "a heater" and will color the soap darker. I use Oat Flour (or Baby Oat Meal) rather than oats which tend to be scratchy, no matter how finely ground up. It's a very soothing bar and the only one I do HP. I use (former member) @Bunny's Olive Oil Castile recipe who made it to help soothe her young grandson's eczema. Additionally, she threw a couple handfulls of oats into the bath water before his bath.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Add half a pound small sea salt after trace

"Salt Bars" have been discussed here many times. They are made with a high % of coconut oil, 20% SF (Super Fat) & varying %'s salt and require a long cure, if I remember correctly. (I have never made them but I suspect they would be good for eczema.) There is also Soleseife soap that uses a high % of salt in the lye solution. Use the magnifying glass in the upper right corner of this page to Search for more info.

I'll let someone else more experienced with salt bars address that recipe. ... I think you would be better to add the salt after you reach a thicker trace, as the salt is heavy and with a thicker trace it will stay in suspension while the soap hardens. If added at thin trace, it will sink to the bottom.

Yep. I agree. But, like @earlene, I have little experience with salt except for ZNSC that uses sea salt to make the lye solution and was referenced earlier. Perhaps a separate new thread on the subject is in order?

 

[Basil]

@AxtFarm , thank you @Zany_in_CO I've not tried everything like the experienced soapers on this forum, but I've tried alot with goat milk lol. I just grabbed some bars that are still in the process of curing and tool a quick picture. These are actually olive, rice bran, coconut, soy wax, castor and small amount of kokum butter. i had bought a ton...get it when it's on sale if you want to try as @earlene and others have said, it's expensive. But I like cocoa butter too, and shea..Shea's probably my least favorite of the three.. I've been working with soy wax as Zany said to retain the scent, as EOs don't last as long and at times I want to cave in and go to FOs. But the goats milk is so pure, that it annoys me to change.. not that I won't as EOs are expensive too and I'm trying to narrow it to a few scents that work and retain etc. Same with colors. Funny you should mention aloe vera as these bars are actually made of 1/2 aloe vera juice and 1/2 goats milk LOL. I figured gardeners might like it! So far, so good. I've also made the honey, oat goat soap. My grandson who is in the army and was stationed in Saudi made my logo for me while he was there. He's been sharing it with all his buds and his colonel now wants to buy some. I've been experimenting so much tho waiting for the perfect soap, seeing what works etc. As the others have said, it does take time. .. the more I learn, the more I want to learn more. Soy wax is tricky with goat milk as you don't want to overheat your goat milk, but you also can't go too low with the temp with soy wax. @KiwiMoose has helped me with that one. I have a recipe very close to @earlene that I really liked but I stopped using palm. I have a few other recipes I'm exploring more for more options. Soy is controversial, but when I learned that the alfalfa I buy is most likely a GMO alfalfa, I didn't have a reason not to use the soy so it was my choice over palm. I admire your dream and plan! I have nigerian goats that are registered, but I didn't start having goats in order to sell them. I do, when all the babies come, but it breaks my heart every time I let them go . I most likely have more than I should, but we bond LOL. At this point, I financially take it in the shorts. I also use @Zany_in_CO recipe..no slime castile. It's LOVELY with goats milk. My daughters and grandkids love it and ask for more. There's a woman in Arizona who also sells registered Nigerians..Blue Cactus Dairy and she's fun to watch on her YOUTube channel. She's also playing around with goat milk soap. And then there's @Cheeky Goat who has goats and she's on this forum too and has a YouTube Channel. Looking forward to seeing what you do! Good Luck! It's a great plan! Everyone on this forum are super helpful, as you've seen already! I've learned a lot.

 

[Mscookie]

Thanks for all the good advice & recipes. I really like the idea of aloe powder.

What is "GM" soap please

 

[earlene]

Goats Milk soap

What is "GM" soap please

 

[Zany_in_CO]

What is "GM" soap please

Hiya Mscookie! You may find this link from the Beginners Forum helpful:
ACRONYMS & ABBREVIATIONS