First Batch questions

[TheGecko]

I make a good GMS.

41% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
20% Palm Oil
14% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil

33% Lye Concentration
5% Super Fat

1 tea Sodium Lactate PPO
1 tea Kaolin Clay

Some Notes:

I do a full GM replacement for the water. I use fresh GM purchased locally and then I freeze it into cubes and then put in the cubes into doubled-freeze bags. I use an ice batch (ice, water, tab of salt [keeps the water colder]) to mix my Lye Solution. I put in the frozen GM cubes into the bowl and then put the bowl into the ice batch and leave it for about 10 minutes to allow the bowl to fully chill. I then add in my Sodium Hydroxide in about five to six parts depending on room temperature and making sure the Solution stays around 70F - 75F max. By keeping the temperature low, your milk isn't going to scorch and you'll end up with a bar that is a very light cream color. You want to be careful though when using such lows temps to make sure your Lye is fully dissolved...with practice you will get a feel for it.

I like to have my oils/butters at around 120F as the colder temperature of the Lye Solution will drop the temperature of hard oils and they can start re-solidifying and you end up with false trace...been there/done that. I don't use colorants in my GMS, so I add my scent to the oils. I also don't gel my GMS. During the Spring/Summer I pop it in the frig and during the Fall/Winter, the garage works fine.

I typically cure my GMS for ten weeks. Since a lot of folks who use my GMS do so for skin issues (it works for them and that's all that counts), my recipes leans more towards a gentler bar that is creamy and conditioning, rather than one that generates a tons of lather and bubbles.

You're welcomed to use it as is or change it up.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@TheGecko Your recipe is close to the Basic Trinity of Oils starter formula. The "palm portion" being split 50/50 palm/shea butter and the addition of 5% castor to boost lather. It is a fine example of how to tweak the formula to make it your own.

ADDITIVES: As a firm believer in the "less is more" theory of soap selling -- additives can negatively impact the profit margin. So...

White Kaolin Clay: I also like adding a teaspoon PPO (Per Pound Oils) to add texture and to whiten a bar instead of using TD (Titanium Dioxide) which can be problematic. However, I would list it as "optional" unless adding a colorant or using a clay as a colorant. But that's just me.

Sodium Lactate: I would also list it as "optional". That bar is hard enough and easy enough to unmold without it -- IME (In My Experience) and JMHO (Just My Humble Opinion) -- unless you have some other reason for adding it?

Your description of how you make GM soap is excellent. Well done!

 

[AliOop]

@AxtFarm you have an excellent recipe there from @TheGecko. You could also sub in lard instead of the palm; I personally prefer the feel of lard over palm in my soaps, but YMMV. Maybe make it both ways and see what you think.

You could also easily and inexpensively boost the bubbles by adding sorbitol at 1% of the oil weight (dissolve it in a little water first). It provides a huge bubble boost without the extra heating that you can get from other forms of sugar such as honey, molasses, etc.

But some of the most important advice given was to cure it for 10 weeks. A four-to-six-week cure will give you a decent bar, but a few weeks longer makes it a great bar.

 

[AxtFarm]

I make a good GMS.

41% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
20% Palm Oil
14% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil

33% Lye Concentration
5% Super Fat

1 tea Sodium Lactate PPO
1 tea Kaolin Clay

Some Notes:

I do a full GM replacement for the water. I use fresh GM purchased locally and then I freeze it into cubes and then put in the cubes into doubled-freeze bags. I use an ice batch (ice, water, tab of salt [keeps the water colder]) to mix my Lye Solution. I put in the frozen GM cubes into the bowl and then put the bowl into the ice batch and leave it for about 10 minutes to allow the bowl to fully chill. I then add in my Sodium Hydroxide in about five to six parts depending on room temperature and making sure the Solution stays around 70F - 75F max. By keeping the temperature low, your milk isn't going to scorch and you'll end up with a bar that is a very light cream color. You want to be careful though when using such lows temps to make sure your Lye is fully dissolved...with practice you will get a feel for it.

I like to have my oils/butters at around 120F as the colder temperature of the Lye Solution will drop the temperature of hard oils and they can start re-solidifying and you end up with false trace...been there/done that. I don't use colorants in my GMS, so I add my scent to the oils. I also don't gel my GMS. During the Spring/Summer I pop it in the frig and during the Fall/Winter, the garage works fine.

I typically cure my GMS for ten weeks. Since a lot of folks who use my GMS do so for skin issues (it works for them and that's all that counts), my recipes leans more towards a gentler bar that is creamy and conditioning, rather than one that generates a tons of lather and bubbles.

You're welcomed to use it as is or change it up.

Thanks for the recipe and the detailed explanation. It's similar to a few of my top trial recipes, but with lower palm and coconut oils so I'm going to add it to my test list. I think I will make 3 batches within a week so I can get an idea of how the different ratio's trace, feel, etc.

How much Clay do you add PPO?

 

[AxtFarm]

@AxtFarm you have an excellent recipe there from @TheGecko. You could also sub in lard instead of the palm; I personally prefer the feel of lard over palm in my soaps, but YMMV. Maybe make it both ways and see what you think.

You could also easily and inexpensively boost the bubbles by adding sorbitol at 1% of the oil weight (dissolve it in a little water first). It provides a huge bubble boost without the extra heating that you can get from other forms of sugar such as honey, molasses, etc.

But some of the most important advice given was to cure it for 10 weeks. A four-to-six-week cure will give you a decent bar, but a few weeks longer makes it a great bar.

Is lard and shortening interchable?

I heard Ellen talking about adding cane sugar in her goat soap recipes. You find sorbitol better?

 

[PiperNigrum]

Thank you for your feedback. I could use Shea butter in most cases, sub in mango for summer tropical bars, cocoa in winter for hot chocolate bars.

I also want to try a high coconut oil % sea salt soap bar with ocean/beach fragrance oil.... something like 50% coconut, 20% olive, 15% palm, 10% mango butter, 5% castor, & small sea salt pieces mixed in.

As far as aloe...I did some more digging and found aloe vera gel as an alternative people use once the mixture is at a light trace. I was thinking maybe start with 90% goat milk at the start and then doing 10% aloe gel at the end...this wouldn't be in all bars, but the specialty aloe bars. Is that a reasonable way to go about it?View attachment 57400View attachment 57403

Sorry if someone has already said this, but mango and cocoa butter will not really give their scents to the soap if that is what you mean by “winter and summer soap”. In fact, mango butter does not even smell like mangoes in the first place. I have not used cocoa butter in my soaps before, but I am pretty sure that I read that the scent does not stay.

 

[AxtFarm]

Sorry if someone has already said this, but mango and cocoa butter will not really give their scents to the soap if that is what you mean by “winter and summer soap”. In fact, mango butter does not even smell like mangoes in the first place. I have not used cocoa butter in my soaps before, but I am pretty sure that I read that the scent does not stay.

The Mango Butter is merely for marketing purposes
The Cocoa is for the fragrance in unscented bars or for Christmas bars (Christmas bars being for marketing purposes and call them "Hot Chocolate Goat Soap")

Whether the Cocoa holds it's scent for the unscented bars I'm not sure of, but I hope so.

 

[AliOop]

Is lard and shortening interchable?

I heard Ellen talking about adding cane sugar in her goat soap recipes. You find sorbitol better?

Shortening usually has palm and soy in it, so it is not the same as lard. Some shortening mixes are listed in the soap calcs, but I personally don't use shortening unless I need a quick palm replacement and I confirm that the shortening is all palm.

I do find sorbitol much more bubbly than sugar, and easier to dissolve, as well. Since I use less sorbitol than sugar, the price works out to be the same, too.

Another disadvantage of sugar is that it heats up the batter more than sorbitol. This is a concern with GMS since you are already working to keep the temps down. But you can always try the sugar and see what you think. Being able to use household ingredients is always a bonus over having to order something.

 

[Mscookie]

Hiya Mscookie! You may find this link from the Beginners Forum helpful:
ACRONYMS & ABBREVIATIONS

Thank you, it came to me later that it must mean "goats milk" yet I will refer to the link!

 

[Basil]

The Mango Butter is merely for marketing purposes
The Cocoa is for the fragrance in unscented bars or for Christmas bars (Christmas bars being for marketing purposes and call them "Hot Chocolate Goat Soap")

Whether the Cocoa holds it's scent for the unscented bars I'm not sure of, but I hope so.
[/QUOTE
I've used the same oils of rice, olive, coconut, soy wax, castor but replaced the kokum with cocoa butter. I've also changed the liquid to 1/3 coffee and 2/3 milk going for a coffee mocha bar. I add the coffee in with the oils. A friend said she could smell both in it. It's faint, but it's there. I love cocoa butter too . You can also try cocoa butter and add cocoa powder for coloring and peppermint EO for scent, if you want. I learned that one from the Nerdy Farm Wife's book a couple of years ago but I don't use the book recipe anymore. I can still smell the scent. Usually I keep the coconut oil at 15% except with the gardener's soap. With that I've bumped it up to 20 just to get more bubbles. It's really nice. As @Zany_in_CO has said, and @earlene, I learned I could lower the cost by using the kokum / cocoa butter in smaller amounts with the soy wax helping with a longer lasting bar. But again, I don't use palm. I don't use TD or sodium lactate either. I find I can keep the temperature of the goat milk in the 70s like @TheGecko by having my bowl in the sink with cold water and use larger frozen milk cubes . When the milk cubes are smaller it heats up faster. It stays pretty cool if you take your time adding the lye.

 

[TheGecko]

ADDITIVES: As a firm believer in the "less is more" theory of soap selling -- additives can negatively impact the profit margin.

I agree. I've seen a lot of soap makers on YouTube spending a good ten minutes adding in the kitchen sink to their soap" sugar, salt, honey, silk, buttermilk, coconut milk, goat milk, colloidal oats and so on and so forth.

I buy my Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay in semi-bulk (1 gal and 1 lb) so it costs me $0.08 for both PPO. My next order will be for 5 gal and 5 lbs and my cost PPO will be almost negligible.

Even though my recipe has a high amount of Hard Oils, I use the Sodium Lactate because I live in the Pacific Northwest and it rains a lot here...especially during the Fall/Winter.

I'm a detail kind of person and I'm kind of tired of folks thinking you can't make GMS without it going some shade of brown. Yeah, making the GM Lye Solution is a little bit of work, but I have found that by adding salt to the ice bath and letting my bowl chill, I can add the Lye in three lots without any additional discoloration. And it's not like I don't have other things that I can be doing...like weighing my MB'd oils, setting up my mold, weighing out my FO, sipping on a cup of tea.

 

[TheGecko]

Thanks for the recipe and the detailed explanation. It's similar to a few of my top trial recipes, but with lower palm and coconut oils so I'm going to add it to my test list. I think I will make 3 batches within a week so I can get an idea of how the different ratio's trace, feel, etc.

How much Clay do you add PPO?

1 teaspoon. I disperse it in a bit of water first and then add to the melted oils.

Because I don't add any colorants to my GMS, I add the scent to the oils and then SB to somewhere between a light and medium trace. And let the soap cure for at least four weeks before you test it elsewise it's going to feel a bit on the harsh side. I don't know why...the recipe really isn't that far off from my Regular Soap, but it likes a longer cure. I have a wholesale account; I send her GMS at six weeks and then she packages it and lets it sit for another four weeks.

 

[AxtFarm]

My first attempts will be made over the next week. I will start with a few batches that use natural colors and natural scents (cocoa butter and some cocoa powder for secondary color) then move onto a fragrance/colored batch, and then a salt bar batch.

500g Oil Recipes 1-3 (naturally scented/colored) (3 oil variants of the same general recipe)
Frozen Milk+Lye+SL+Sorbitol to melt/temp
Oils to melt/temp
Mix to light trace then split into two bowls
Add cocoa powder to one bowl
Pour Dark mixture back into the light-colored mixture and lightly swirl
Pour into 6 individual silicone molds

500g Oil Recipe 4 (fragrance)
Frozen Milk+Lye+SL+TD+Sorbitol to melt/temp
Oils to melt/temp
Add KC/water mixture
Mix to light trace
Split into two bowls
Yellow Mica w/oil into one
Orange Mica w/oil into other
Add 0.5oz Fragrance & split between the two bowls
Pour Orange mixture back into Yellow mixture and lightly swirl
Pour into 6 individual silicone molds

500g Oil Recipe 5 (Salt Bars)
Frozen Milk+Lye+SL+TD+Sorbitol to melt/temp
Oils to melt/temp
Add KC/water mixture
Mix to light trace
Dark Blue Mica w/oil into one bowl & mix
Light Blue Mica w/oil into the other bowl & mix
Add 0.5oz Fragrance split between the two bowls
Mix in 125g of Sea Salt into each of the bowls
Pour Dark mixture back into the light-colored mixture and lightly swirl
Pour into 6 individual silicone molds

I'm not real sure of the order to do things with the salt bars, but based on what I have read once I add the salt things will have to go fast


Anything I need to change about my plan(s)?

 

[AxtFarm]

Here is my current cost per oz & cost PPO breakdown on various ingredients. If any of them are too high and you can guide me to better sources that would be great. It seems like the fragrance is the biggest price issue as well as mica because I won't use a lot of the colors in a multi-color kit causing wasted spending.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

I make a good GMS.

41% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
20% Palm Oil
14% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil

33% Lye Concentration
5% Super Fat

1 tea Sodium Lactate PPO
1 tea Kaolin Clay

Some Notes:

I do a full GM replacement for the water. I use fresh GM purchased locally and then I freeze it into cubes and then put in the cubes into doubled-freeze bags. I use an ice batch (ice, water, tab of salt [keeps the water colder]) to mix my Lye Solution. I put in the frozen GM cubes into the bowl and then put the bowl into the ice batch and leave it for about 10 minutes to allow the bowl to fully chill. I then add in my Sodium Hydroxide in about five to six parts depending on room temperature and making sure the Solution stays around 70F - 75F max. By keeping the temperature low, your milk isn't going to scorch and you'll end up with a bar that is a very light cream color. You want to be careful though when using such lows temps to make sure your Lye is fully dissolved...with practice you will get a feel for it.

I like to have my oils/butters at around 120F as the colder temperature of the Lye Solution will drop the temperature of hard oils and they can start re-solidifying and you end up with false trace...been there/done that. I don't use colorants in my GMS, so I add my scent to the oils. I also don't gel my GMS. During the Spring/Summer I pop it in the frig and during the Fall/Winter, the garage works fine.

I typically cure my GMS for ten weeks. Since a lot of folks who use my GMS do so for skin issues (it works for them and that's all that counts), my recipes leans more towards a gentler bar that is creamy and conditioning, rather than one that generates a tons of lather and bubbles.

You're welcomed to use it as is or change it up.

So nice of you to share your recipe' Big Hugs

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Anything I need to change about my plan(s)?

Oh my. Yes! Yes! Yes! Stop the music! Hold the phone! Hit the brakes! Back burner all above batches until you've perfected a basic bar, i.e., no fragrance, no color, no additives. Anyone of those are known to skew results and you don't want the additional challenge for your first batch. Once you have the basic bar down you will have a basis for comparison to each succeeding trial.

Reread @amd's sound advice in post #6

(3 oil variants of the same general recipe)

You didn't say which recipe you would be using??? Before starting, first clear your recipe(s) and technique on the Recipe Feedback Forum for input.

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm but we really do want your first batch to be successful. To my mind at least, the plans you outlined above is like building a house without laying a foundation. KWIM? (Know What I Mean?)

TIP: 500g oils X a factor of 1.37 = 685g soap (approx.)
685g divided by 6 individual cavity molds = 114g (4 oz.) soap in each cavity

It is also a good idea to test colorants & scents before making batch. It is fairly easy to do with the above 500g set-up. I just posted a link to the way I like to do it:

TESTING FOs/EOs & COLORANTS IN CP

 

[AliOop]

If you add TD to the batches that will also have other micas in them, that's going to give you pastel colors. If that's what you want, great. But if you are going for the actual mica color, then skip the TD.

Also, TD also tends to thicken up your soap more quickly, leaving you far less time to work with the colors. If you need to add it to lighten something up, add it after you split the batch for coloring, rather than at the beginning.

 

[AxtFarm]

I would rather try and fail several times, but learn a little each time than try once and wait for a cure to see if it had good results before doing it again.

The worst that can happen is I fill up a garbage bag with bad soap, burn my eyes out with Lye, and waste some time

 

[AxtFarm]

If you add TD to the batches that will also have other micas in them, that's going to give you pastel colors. If that's what you want, great. But if you are going for the actual mica color, then skip the TD.

Also, TD also tends to thicken up your soap more quickly, leaving you far less time to work with the colors. If you need to add it to lighten something up, add it after you split the batch for coloring, rather than at the beginning.

So only TD to whiten what I want to keep white? I was thinking I need to whiten a naturally tan Goat mixture before adding mica to get the colors bright

 

[Zany_in_CO]

So only TD to whiten what I want to keep white? I was thinking I need to whiten a naturally tan Goat mixture before adding mica to get the colors bright

TIP:
For WHITE GMS (CP) stick the mold in the fridge over night to prevent gel. You don't need TD.
Compare to TAN (CP or HP) GMS where you cover and insulate with old towels or a blanket to insure gel -- which, btw, intensifies whatever color you use.

ADVICE: Embrace the tan. Customers do. Not using colorants improves the profit margin, not to mention all the T & E you are likely to experience "getting it right." Better to spend the time and $$ focused on fragrance. Fragrance sells!!!

OPTION: I sometimes use white Kaolin clay to lay down a white foundation for the colorant ( )
The only time I use TD is to make sunscreen! But that's just me. Not a fan.