First attempt at Pine Tar and have weird granules in soap.

[loriag]

So I gave pine tar a go today for the first time. All went well except for these weird granules.
Warmed pine tar can in hot water bath so it was easy to add and mix in my oils.
Used 1 tsp sea salt completely dissolved in water before adding lye and mixing.
Soaped at 95 degrees.
Used T EDTA and ROE as I normally would.
Hand stirred no SBing.
Didn’t see granules till pouring.
Did my additives do this?
Did my palm or cocoa granulate with cooler temperature (but that would seem weird)?
Thoughts?

 

[loriag]

 

[snappyllama]

It looks like the pine tar didn't mix in entirely.

 

[Misschief]

What texture are the granules?

 

[cedarstar]

I agree that it looks like the pine tar didn't fully mix. When I made pine tar soap I used a high amount of lard and no castor oil as I find castor oil to increase trace. I melt my oils and warm my pine tar can in a hot water bath until it's fluid like. Then I split my oils in half and blend one half together with the pine tar. When oils, tar mix and lye water are at room temp I add lye to the half remaining oils and stick blend just to emulsify. Then I stir in the pine tar/oil mix and stir by hand. Doing it this way allowed me a lot of time to work with my batter and it poured nicely into the mold. I also didn't use a high water discount.
Debbie

 

[loriag]

What texture are the granules?

The are really soft and smear, betcha you are right it is the pine tar. Sigh, guess I am making another loaf today.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you added the pine tar after adding the lye solution, it's really tough to get the PT mixed in well enough, and that will cause bubbles or threads of soft PT throughout the soap. Been there, done that. After that experience, I learned to do the split version as Cedarstar describes, and that works very well. It's my preferred method when making PT soap.

Another method that works, but is a little riskier (at least for me -- YMMV), is to add the PT to all of the oils, mix the PT into the fats really well, and then add the lye solution to the whole thing.

Even if the pine tar is well mixed into the fats, the soap batter often looks gritty rather than smooth when you pour it into the mold and I think this is basically a type of ricing. After saponification, the soap generally looks okay, but sometimes I the finished soap has some mottling of rust throughout the bar that I think is related to this ricing. The solution is to pour a tiny bit sooner so the batter still looks fairly smooth during the pour. That precise moment in time can be hard to catch!

 

[cedarstar]

I haven't tried any other method other than the split method and I've not experienced ricing. I had plenty of time to mix it well (by hand) after adding in the other half of the oils to my emulsified oil/lye mix. I don't add any fragrance or essential oils to my pine tar soap. My batter has remained smooth and produced beautiful soap.

 

[Papa Sam]

I'm a newbie here... though 69 years on earth , and I have made a few batches of CP soap in the last couple of months. My first 2 or 3 were - 'Meh' - but now I have watched enough YouTube and read several soap books, and believe it or not - you apparently can teach an old dog new tricks. But now I thought to make a Pine tar soap and have run into a bit of a dilemma in that all of the pine tar that I can find says specifically "Not for human use". I do plan on gifting and maybe even selling soap in the future (when I have gotten my soap making groove established) and I can't help but wonder if, in this litigious society that we live in, if I use the pine tar that is labeled"Not for human use" would I not leave myself liable in a big way? I have searched every way I know how to find a pine tar that I can use... and it doesn't even have to say "Okay for human use"... all it has to do is NOT say not for human use. Does anyone know where I can get pine tar that is not labeled against use by humans?? I have always had mild eczema, and I was really hoping to make something myself that I could use.

Thanks for letting me join this forum - hopefully I won't be too imposing on the good folks that have posted so many insightful tips that I have been reading.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Does anyone know where I can get pine tar that is not labeled against use by humans?? ..."

In a word, no, you won't find this. Pine tar manufacturers do not label pine tar for human use, because pine tar, at least in the US, is not approved for human medical treatment. Basically the use of pine tar in soap is an "off label" use of the product.

There is no way you are going to get any manufacturer to even imply it should be used on humans. If they did, then they would be claiming it to be a drug, and a drug claim will get them in hot water with the FDA.

Because pine tar has a long history of use in folk medicine, I can see why the manufacturers put a definite "not for human use" statement on their product -- that might hopefully reduce the number of inquiries like yours.

It's not legal (again in the US) to even suggest or indirectly imply your pine tar soap is good for treating skin conditions. Just describe it as soap that gets a person clean, and properly and clearly label it as containing pine tar, and leave it at that. And get liability insurance.

 

[Papa Sam]

"...Does anyone know where I can get pine tar that is not labeled against use by humans?? ..."

In a word, no, you won't find this. Pine tar manufacturers do not label pine tar for human use, because pine tar, at least in the US, is not approved for human medical treatment. Basically the use of pine tar in soap is an "off label" use of the product.

There is no way you are going to get any manufacturer to even imply it should be used on humans. If they did, then they would be claiming it to be a drug, and a drug claim will get them in hot water with the FDA.

Because pine tar has a long history of use in folk medicine, I can see why the manufacturers put a definite "not for human use" statement on their product -- that might hopefully reduce the number of inquiries like yours.

It's not legal (again in the US) to even suggest or indirectly imply your pine tar soap is good for treating skin conditions. Just describe it as soap that gets a person clean, and properly and clearly label it as containing pine tar, and leave it at that. And get liability insurance.

Thanks for the reply... I pretty much figured out that manufacturers would not label FOR human use... I just thought that someone might know of one that didn't specifically label AGAINST human use - but I'm sure their lawyers would not let them do that . In researching this I have noted that many other countries have recognized the improvements that pine tar processing has gone through in the past few years and the resulting safer product. I think I'll just make a personal batch and go from there. Oh - I am definitely going to get insurance. Thanks again for replying - I appreciate the advice.