Failure after failure

[johnny_fx]

Hi guys, another newbie here.

Yesterday I'd made my 4-th batch ever and... total failure.

When I tried to cut it today, it started to crumble. And when I tried to make a ball from the little pieces, I can't. They just act like curd mixed with sand and refuse to stick to each other.

1 kg batch:
70% Olive Pomace
22% Palm
8% Castor

30% Water /from local spring, first time using it/
7% SF

at trace:
5 tbsp Dwarf Elder extract with honey /purple but turns orange in soap :think:/
20ml Lavender EO

I use soapcalc and digital scale, no lye heavy.


I just don't get it.

So what now, rebatching?

 

[Ruthie]

How was the extract made? I'm wondering if that might be a factor. It is better to start with no additives- just oil, water and lye- til you get the process down. Hopefully someone has a better answer for you!

 

[johnny_fx]

It is better to start with no additives- just oil, water and lye- til you get the process down.

I agree with that, but my experimental nature doesn't.

So for the extract - layer berries, layer honey in a jar, and so on. After 7-10 days it's strained. I was looking for lavender color, but what a surprise, I end up with orange.

 

[houseofwool]

That seems like an awful lot of honey in a 1 kg batch.

Truly, try again with out additives.

 

[ruby61]

Why don't you try a batch unscented/colored and see what happens. It will give you a good indication if it is the recipe versus the additives.

 

[Genny]

Are you absolutely 100% sure that it's not lye heavy? Did you zap test it? The crumbling sounds like lye heaviness.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you have made 4 batches and all 4 are failures, evaluate your methods and your equipment. I have only 8 batches made so far (and I am also one for pushing limits), and I have not had a failure yet. To add to what the others have suggested, check your scale for accuracy. Check that you are using the right numbers for NaOH -- some folks have used the weight for KOH but used NaOH, which would make your soap lye heavy.

 

[Nevada]

Poor quality Olive Pumice? Maybe it doesn't really contain much oil - it is the Grappa of Olive Oil
Faulty Scale?
Contaminated/ Extra hard Spring water?

or something from all three creating a perfect storm
Roy

 

[sistrum]

Were your other batches the same recipe? Did they fail in the same way? How much lye did you use?
You really should not try to rebatch untill you know what went wrong.

 

[johnny_fx]

The scale is ok. I don't have test strips, but I lick the soap and I even chew it - no zap, no nothing. I never felt zap from my soaps, even on the next day.

Lye is 125 gr, as calculated. Water 300 gr.

Water is supposed to be soft, but I don't know about mineral content.
Honey is a little more for a kilo, pomace may be low quality, but can they do that?

All my recipes are different, just playing with soapcalc and oils that I have. I said failures, because I have high expectations, but they are useable. For this one, I don't think I can use it.
Third batch had yolks and honey and except weird smell /burned omelet and black pepper/ is ok.
Second batch had pine tar and turns out oily, but after removing of oily layer and 6 weeks later, it's useable.
First one was 100% Olive oil with 20% water and it's ok.


CP soap making can be temperamental subject.

 

[Loolee]

No offense, but you are trying to run before you even know how to walk. In fact, you are trying to run a marathon before you even know how to walk.

Start with a simple one pound batch of soap, 16 ounces of oils. Oil, water, lye. Anything you add to your soap may change the outcome. It can cause it to accelerate. or rice. or separate. Your fragrances may change how your soap comes to trace. You need to know what normal soap looks like before you try all that fancy stuff. You need to know what is good trace, false trace, thick trace and how to handle it all. THEN add some fragrance and some colorant. But I guess if you have unlimited money and don't mind wasting it, then keep doing what you are doing.

Something else I would suggest, is get rid of the pomace and use regular olive oil I've heard that pomace can do weird things. A good recipe is

20% coconut
30% olive oil
30% lard or palm
10% castor
10% cocoa butter

 

[johnny_fx]

In fact, you are trying to run a marathon before you even know how to walk.

Yes, I know. I'm trying to do this all my life.

 

[la-rene]

I would bet the water is the issue. It's one of the reasons spring water tastes so good. It's got a lot of minerals in it.

 

[Ruthie]

Although you love to experiment think of learning to make soap as an experiment in its own right. And a good and worthy experiment too! Once you have mastered that one, you will be ready to move on to bigger things. And you will also have the technique down so you know how to get the results you are wanting. Then your experiments will be successful, not failures

 

[karol]

You're dealing with additives that can be tricky for even an experienced soapmaker. Experiment with your basic recipe until you find one you love and then move on to additives. I wonder, too, what temperature you're soaping at? Sometimes too hot and it can cause crumbly soap.

 

[leniwie]

As to the crumbles - my first honey soap was crumbly too - next time I used a little less honey, the texture is just fine now. If the soap is well calculated it is probably too much honey or other additives, once I spoiled a kilo of soap with some fragrance oil that I used for the first time. Less honey, and no scent - try it, then add scent. Try 500gr batches. You can make a kilo, add scent only to half to see if this is the problem.

 

[BananaBee]

Did your soap gel? For some batches that is very important. Ungelled soap is brittle and soft, but when it gels, its hard and firm. Maybe you should put it the next time in the oven .

Soaps with so much olive oil tend to softness. You sould wait several days - 1 week until you cut it, because olive oil needs time to get hard.

 

[sapone]

What is the exact qty. of lye you are using? Is it sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide? Have you run the recipe through a soap calculator?

 

[Relle]

As a newbie I would be using full water and going by soapcalc that should be 380 grms. with 125 grms lye and instead of spring water use distilled water that will let you know if its the water.

 

[johnny_fx]

Update: 50% rebatching /kind of/
I just add 50% shredded soap to new batch, without additives and it's OK.

Too many variables, but maybe the honey was too much.