Dr. Bronners
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I have no idea what the percentage is but looking at the ingredient list it's less than water, coconut oil and KOH. (Makes me a bit crazy it's called castile when it's not.) Anyway, you may be able to come close to that recipe by playing with the ingredient list until you get the quantities that fall in order of the list if that's what you're looking to do. The "Unscented Baby-Mild" contains water, CO, KOH, OO, hemp oil, jojoba oil, citric acid and tocopherol. Not sure if this is the info you're looking for or if it's even helpful! Sorry Angie, if it's not, lol.
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I believe this to be MOST consumers of Dr. Bronners.
I have this conversation LOTS with Dr. Bronner die-hards, and when I tell them to look up what a true Castile Soap is, some of them go "Oh...well how come they call it that?"
I don't know... but when it's anything but 100% Olive Oil Soap...it isn't Castile.
Dahila
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I bought few of his soaps and they dry my skin senseless. I can not imagine using it on my Eczemic grandchild even baby mild
Someone from here spoke with him recently and his reply was along the lines of "there are no animal fats, that's what WE mean when we say Castile..............." :clap:
There is no legal definition of Castile in the US. He is legally allowed to call it anything he wants to. It is unfortunate, but there it is.
You could send your crunchy friends to his website to read the list of ingredients for themselves. Then show them the definition of Castile.
You could send your crunchy friends to his website to read the list of ingredients for themselves. Then show them the definition of Castile.
It might be surprising to us, but the use of castile to NOT mean a 100% olive oil soap has a long history in the US and as well as in other countries. This confusion appeared to have started in the early 1800s as a way for disreputable soap makers to deceive consumers into thinking they were buying a mild olive-oil soap, but by the early 1900s, the common meaning of the word castile had irrevocably changed. In 1930s, James S. Kirk (of Kirks Castile fame) had been barred by the US Federal Trade Commission from using "castile" to describe his soap made from a blend of vegetable oils. In 1932 he won a case against the FTC regarding this issue --
The FTC claimed:
"..The basis of the commission's complaint is to the effect that castile soap is one in which olive oil constitutes the sole oily or fatty ingredient. The commission has found this to be true, as a matter of fact, and it is supported by some evidence. The respondent, therefore, insists that such finding is conclusive and that unfair competition is established...." Dictionary definitions and usage of the word by the US Pharmacopoeia, etc. were introduced to support the use of the word castile to mean a soap made only with olive oil.
The court responded that the common meaning of the word castile was quite different:
"...by far the greater number of witnesses, from all parts of the United States, testified that castile soap meant to them a pure high-grade toilet soap; or that it implied no special vegetable oil as an ingredient... the substance of all their testimony proves beyond question, so far as individual opinions are concerned, that the word "castile" when used with soap means different things to different persons....
The court further noted that even the US government recognized how the use of the word had changed. In a pamphlet from the US Bureau of Commerce:
"...Castile Soap was originally made from low-grade olive oils. The name now represents a type of soap, the term 'castile' being applied to a soap intended for toilet or household use... The type is not one easily defined, so now when made from olive oil it is invariably sold as olive-oil castile. There are soaps made entirely from coconut oil which are sold as coconut castiles or hard-water castiles. Many other castiles are made from a mixture of coconut oil and tallow...."
Reference: James S. Kirk & Co. v. Federal Trade Commission, 59 F.2d 179 (7th Cir. 1932), http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/59/179/1471747/
The FTC claimed:
"..The basis of the commission's complaint is to the effect that castile soap is one in which olive oil constitutes the sole oily or fatty ingredient. The commission has found this to be true, as a matter of fact, and it is supported by some evidence. The respondent, therefore, insists that such finding is conclusive and that unfair competition is established...." Dictionary definitions and usage of the word by the US Pharmacopoeia, etc. were introduced to support the use of the word castile to mean a soap made only with olive oil.
The court responded that the common meaning of the word castile was quite different:
"...by far the greater number of witnesses, from all parts of the United States, testified that castile soap meant to them a pure high-grade toilet soap; or that it implied no special vegetable oil as an ingredient... the substance of all their testimony proves beyond question, so far as individual opinions are concerned, that the word "castile" when used with soap means different things to different persons....
The court further noted that even the US government recognized how the use of the word had changed. In a pamphlet from the US Bureau of Commerce:
"...Castile Soap was originally made from low-grade olive oils. The name now represents a type of soap, the term 'castile' being applied to a soap intended for toilet or household use... The type is not one easily defined, so now when made from olive oil it is invariably sold as olive-oil castile. There are soaps made entirely from coconut oil which are sold as coconut castiles or hard-water castiles. Many other castiles are made from a mixture of coconut oil and tallow...."
Reference: James S. Kirk & Co. v. Federal Trade Commission, 59 F.2d 179 (7th Cir. 1932), http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/59/179/1471747/
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Interesting history!
I took Dr. B's with me when I went to study in the Soviet Union (yes, I'm that old) and again to Russia in the early 90s. I wanted something all purpose, for hair, body, clothing, etc. I found it very drying on my skin, but Dr. B.s and a scrub brush got the mud out of my jeans...
I took Dr. B's with me when I went to study in the Soviet Union (yes, I'm that old) and again to Russia in the early 90s. I wanted something all purpose, for hair, body, clothing, etc. I found it very drying on my skin, but Dr. B.s and a scrub brush got the mud out of my jeans...
navigator9
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Dr. Bronner's will always have a special place in my heart. Back in my hippie days, someone turned me on to Dr. Bronner's. I worked in a doctor's office and I owned one pair of panty hose. Remember those? Anyway, every day when I came home from work, I'd take off the panty hose, wash them in the sink with Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap, and hang them on the shower curtain rod for the next day. The entire bathroom would smell of peppermint! Occasionally, to this day, I'll buy some, just to go time tripping, I smell that peppermint, and I'm right back in 1970! lol I think I always preferred it for washing undies, but it does have a mystique about it.......those crazy labels, peppermint wafting through the air. I remember you could even buy it in gallon jugs! There's a fascinating documentary about Dr. Bronner, I think it's called "Soap Box". He had a very interesting life. Of course, I prefer my own soap for bathing, but Dr. Bronner's will always be special to me.
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As far as shelf soaps Dr B is one of my favorites too, regardless of the debate, but I still prefer my own now.
If I had to buy an OTC soap product, it would be Dr B's. It took me forever to get my hubby to switch from that to mine for his face. But once I started making pine tar soap, he converted. That's the only soap he's ever said "don't stop making this one. I love it!"
Mildreds.naturals
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I think most people can agree with Wikipedia's definition of Castile soap as any liquid or bar soap that is made with simple ingredients that are from Vegetable fats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castile_soap
The whole "true" castile soap conversation is a bit useless as nearly everyone on this board can agree Castile soap consisting of 100% olive oil is nowhere near as useful as it is if you add even just 10% Coco. For all intensive purposes most people I meet refer to vegetable oil soaps as "castile". If you want to get real technical, I've actually purchased Castile soap, made in Spain while in Spain. Unless it comes from the area of "Castile", mainly, Central spain and parts of western spain extending to Barcelona, then it's not Castile soap. It's named from where it originated. Your 100% olive oil soap made in Milwaukee is American soap because that's where you made it :razz: Millenia ago, olive oil was as plentiful and cheap as corn oil and so they made it from that (especially if you were poor and that was all you could get your hands on).
In fact, soap makers in spain don't make castile soap anymore. At least not by your definition of what Castile Soap is. I went upstairs to look at the label just so I could be sure and provide you the exact ingredient list here:
Ingredientes: Olea europaea, Cocos Nucifera, Agua, Hidróxida sódico, Rosa moschata oil 3%, lavandula hybrida, lavandula latifolia, citrus limon, limonene, citral, linalool, geraniol
Entonces, The first ingredient is Olive oil, and look! coconut right after.
The description right on the label in Spanish:
Este Jabón ha sido elaborado con aceite virgen de los olivos centenarios de la Sierra de Espadán, siguiendo los procesos artesanales de los antiguos maestros jaboneros.
In English:
"This soap has been made with virgin olive oil from Sierra de Espadán mountains, using the same ancient methods as the soap masters did."
Continue to think of it in the way you do if you like, I just think it's silly :razz:
Yes I speak Spanish hehe. and I love the "crunchy" friends bit haha!
Then the term Castile would actually be utterly useless as it refers to such a wide range of soaps. A good number of people do not use animal fats, which makes all of their soaps "Castile" by that rationale. A soap with 20% CO, 50% Palm, 5% Castor and 25% OO would be a Castile - or would that just be "soap"?
Someone on The Dish coined the phrase "Bastile" to refer to a soap with mostly OO but not all, leaving Castile to refer to a pure OO soap, allowing some distinction.
Location based names are not just based on the location. Champagne can only be made in Champagne, but would not apply to, for example, bread made in Champagne. It would also not refer to any type of wine made in Champage, nor would it refer to any sparkling white wine that was not made in Champagne. Only sparkling white wine made in Champagne can be called Champagne. Even if they made a sparkling Rose wine in Champagne using the same method as Champagne, but difference grapes, it would not be Champagne
But Castile is not a protected name in that regards, which means that people can call what ever they like "Castile". There is nothing to stop someone calling a soap with lard "Castile" other than the fact that it would be clearly anything but a castile.
As the original Castile appears to have been pure olive oil, I don't see an issue with the Castile/Bastile options, especially on a soap making forum where a good distinction between a 100% OO bar and any other type of soap is rather handy. Castile soaps need a cure of 12 months or so - but a soap with 20% CO, 50% Palm, 5% Castor and 25% OO would of course not need that much of cure, even though it is a Castile to you.
General parlace here at the moment seems to be: Castile = 100% OO. Bastile = mostly OO, but not pure.
Someone on The Dish coined the phrase "Bastile" to refer to a soap with mostly OO but not all, leaving Castile to refer to a pure OO soap, allowing some distinction.
Location based names are not just based on the location. Champagne can only be made in Champagne, but would not apply to, for example, bread made in Champagne. It would also not refer to any type of wine made in Champage, nor would it refer to any sparkling white wine that was not made in Champagne. Only sparkling white wine made in Champagne can be called Champagne. Even if they made a sparkling Rose wine in Champagne using the same method as Champagne, but difference grapes, it would not be Champagne
But Castile is not a protected name in that regards, which means that people can call what ever they like "Castile". There is nothing to stop someone calling a soap with lard "Castile" other than the fact that it would be clearly anything but a castile.
As the original Castile appears to have been pure olive oil, I don't see an issue with the Castile/Bastile options, especially on a soap making forum where a good distinction between a 100% OO bar and any other type of soap is rather handy. Castile soaps need a cure of 12 months or so - but a soap with 20% CO, 50% Palm, 5% Castor and 25% OO would of course not need that much of cure, even though it is a Castile to you.
General parlace here at the moment seems to be: Castile = 100% OO. Bastile = mostly OO, but not pure.
Mildreds.naturals
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Pine tar, is that "tall"? Where do you buy yours from?
I don't buy pine tar soap, I make it. Sorry if that was a bit confusing in the post. Hubby switched from Dr. B's to my pine tar soap for his face. 
But I may be confused and misunderstood your post, so if you're asking where I buy the actual pine tar, I get it at Tractor Supply. It's in the equine section and the brand is Bickmore.
But I may be confused and misunderstood your post, so if you're asking where I buy the actual pine tar, I get it at Tractor Supply. It's in the equine section and the brand is Bickmore.
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TEG, thanks for the education! I've wondered what this "Bastile" was. Now I can stop using "Castile-ish" for my soap.
KristaY, problem solved! Thanks. Off to Tractor Supply this weekend for some pine tar.
BTW: does anyone know if pine tar and pine sap are the same thing? A friend of mine referred to pine sap. I would think that pine tar is more processed (boiled?) than just pine sap.
KristaY, problem solved! Thanks. Off to Tractor Supply this weekend for some pine tar.
BTW: does anyone know if pine tar and pine sap are the same thing? A friend of mine referred to pine sap. I would think that pine tar is more processed (boiled?) than just pine sap.
Short answer to you, Mildred -- Nope, pine tar is different than pine sap. You cannot sub one for the other.
