Does this look good for a soap batch?

[Kay]

I'm really VERY new to soap making. I've only made 3 batches so far, and one of those I had to pitch! lol! I do HP soap for right now. I'm looking for something that will produce a hard soap bar, lots of lather, and a good conditioner. Yes, I want it ALL! lol! Here is what I've come up with. Does anyone see anything I need to change? Input is very welcome!

32 oz 5% Super-Fatted

Sweet Almond Oil: 40% 12.8 oz or 363 grams
Coconut Oil: 30% 9.6 oz or 272 grams
Mango Butter: 30% 9.6 oz or 272 grams
Water: 12.16 oz or 344.7 grams
Lye: 4.60 oz or 130 grams

For scenting, I'm using EO's. At 3% of total weight, this should put me somewhere around 28 grams total.

Lemon 15% 4.2 grams
Rose Geranium 35% 9.8 grams
Rose 50% 14 grams

I am making this just for hubby & I.
I've used Mango Butter in this recipe, but I've ordered both Mango Butter and Kokum Butter. Is there much difference between these? Do you prefer one over the other? If so, why? What about splitting that ratio and using 15% Mango Butter and 15% Kokum Butter?

 

[rangelita]

Kay, try using soapcalc.net.this has a lye calculator that also predicts the hardness, lather and conditioning properties of your soap using your percentages and the qualities of the fatty acids in each of your oils. I put your recipe in and it was hard enough but scored low on bubbles. I think it's the high percentage of mango butter.go on this site and play with it a bit more.

 

[Kay]

Ok, thank you! What about this one?

Sweet Almond Oil: 40% 12.8 oz or 363 grams
Coconut Oil: 30% 9.6 oz or 272 grams
Mango Butter: 25% 8 oz or 226 grams
Castor Oil: 5% 1.6 oz or 45 grams
Water: 12.16 oz or 344.7 grams
Lye: 4.60 oz or 130 grams

That makes the soap softer, but it does increase the bubbly.


***OR***

What about keeping original recipe, but adding 1-2 tsp of sugar to the water before adding lye? I've just read that this will add bubbles to soap. One place I read, said to not use it if you are cooking your soap. Does this mean, since I'm HP I can't use sugar? Anyone out there tried adding sugar to HP soap before? Does it change any other factors other than the bubbly category?

 

[misskat22]

I don't know about your recipe, but I did want to say, I'm not sure why you couldn't cook a soap with sugar in it. I had a really nice cp batch that I had added sugar to and ended up having to hp it and it turned out fantastic! Have you looked into using coconut oil? It adds hardness and bubbles!

 

[lizflowers42]

It might get darker than you intend because your sugars carmalize.

 

[new12soap]

Yes, you can add granulated sugar to your recipe for HP soap. Use a little of the water your recipe calls for, warm it up, and then completely dissolve the sugar in the water before adding the lye. If is isn't completely and totally disolved first you will get hard little crystals of sugar that will never dissolve. Then go ahead and HP your soap, it doesn't get darker. Some people say that the added sugar increases lather, others say they haven't seen much difference. Use no more than 1 tbsp ppo or your soap may "sweat".

I like to keep my coconut oil below 25% (unless I am making salt bars), but that is just personal preference. You may want to increase your superfat a bit to compensate for the extra CO.

I second what a previous poster said, spend some time playing with soapcalc and read about the different properties of oils, it will help you get a good balance for what you are looking for.

 

[Serenity]

Hi Kay. I make CP soap, so I'm not an expert on HP, but I wouldn't add expensive rose oil to a soap. I realise that the essential oils hold up better in HP than CP, but I think it would still be quite costly. The rose geranium should give a nice rosy smell anyway and the rose oil may not add much as it's quite delicate.

You could try the essential oil blend by adding a drop of each EO to a cotton wool ball and see what it's like without the rose.

 

[Kay]

Thank you everyone! Keep those suggestions coming!

 

[Kay]

How does this look?

Total oil weight 32
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 10 %
Lye Concentration 26.197 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.817:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 43 : 57
Iodine 55
INS 159
Fragrance Ratio 0
Fragrance Weight 0 Oz
Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 0.76 12.16 344.73
Lye - NaOH 0.27 4.316 122.368
# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 30 0.6 9.6 272.155
2 Almond Oil, sweet 10 0.2 3.2 90.718
3 Kokum Butter 10 0.2 3.2 90.718
4 Mango Seed Butter 10 0.2 3.2 90.718
5 Castor Oil 5 0.1 1.6 45.359
6 Olive Oil 35 0.7 11.2 317.514
Totals 100 2 32 907.184
Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 41
Cleansing 12 - 22 20
Conditioning 44 - 69 54
Bubbly 14 - 46 25
Creamy 16 - 48 26
Iodine 41 - 70 55
INS 136 - 165 159
Lauric 14
Myristic 6
Palmitic 9
Stearic 12
Ricinoleic 5
Oleic 42
Linoleic 7
Linolenic 0

I can add 2 tsp of sugar to add to the bubbly factor. WHAT can I do to increase the conditioning factor? I'd like to have it up just a tad bit more. Like at least 56. Can I add something at trace that would increase this number? I've been playing with this soapcal ALL DAY! I'm sooo confused at this point. Just want someone to tell me what to do!:crazy:

Aside from the oils I have listed above, I also have some Canola and Sunflower oils if I need to use them somehow.

 

[pamielynn]

If I read this right, you have 30% of the recipe as coconut oil. If you want a more conditioning bar, you may have to bring that down. But remember that soapcalc is a range - I've soaped recipes at 52 and thought they were nice and not drying.

ETA: you can add some canola to your recipe, but I'd lower the superfat a bit - just to try to avoid DOS

 

[DeeAnna]

Okay, Liz, I'm going to add my 2 cents.

Do you really want to spend all that money on expensive butters that are just going to wash down the drain? Pick one. Just one. Any one. If you must.

Then add your less expensive oils to your fancy butter to round out your recipe. Many, many lovely soaps are made with just a few carefully selected but inexpensive oils that are a match to soaps made with a ton of fancy ingredients.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest some constraints that may be helpful for a first go at making a "typical" soap recipe for a nice bath, shower, and hand soap:

Coconut oil at or below 25% (I limit CO to 20% or less, but that's just me)
Castor at or below 10% (some say castor over 10% cuts lather and feels slimy)
Canola and/or sunflower at or below 10% total (reduces chance of DOS, keeps your bar harder)
Super fat at or below 10% (reduces chance of DOS, increases lather, may reduce softness)
No fat less than 5% (if you're going to use an oil, use enough of it to be worth the trouble)

Play with the other oils and such until you're happy.

And Serenity is right -- keep your fragrance on the inexpensive side until you know what you like and what works well in your soap. Rose EO in soap might be a rather expensive but "meh" experience -- or far too much of a good thing. In either case, that's a lot of money wasted.

Use the "bubbly, hardness, etc." numbers, but don't get too hung up on small differences. A couple-three points change is not a big deal. Look for general trends instead. You will get a better feel for what you like as you gain experience with "the numbers" and with your soaps.

In my soaps, honestly, anything above 15 or so seems to work fine for the bubbly and creamy numbers. Keep your cleansing fairly low if you're shooting for a normal type of bath, shower, and hand soap -- I like this to be about 10-15. Conditioning in the mid 50s or above is lovely.

Try to keep your INS number within the suggested range of 136 - 165, if possible. This will give you a recipe that traces nicely -- not too fast, not too slow -- which is nice for a person's first few batches. A little outside that range is fine, though.

You will find as many opinions as there are soapmakers, so take my suggestions with a big bar of soap. As always, YMMV (your mileage may vary). Happy soaping --DeeAnna

 

[DeeAnna]

Addition:
But superfat at or above 5% (for safety)

And an edit:
... but even a cleansing value of less than 10 -- even zero -- will still clean just fine, so don't get confused with "very low" cleansing values. It's the high cleansing numbers that may be less desirable.

 

[lizflowers42]

Okay, Liz, I'm going to add my 2 cents.

Do you really want to spend all that money on expensive butters that are just going to wash down the drain? Pick one. Just one

I think you mean Kay

I have made the same beer soap recipe both HP and CP and the HP comes out much darker...which I assumed was because the sugars carmalized. My appologies.

 

[DeeAnna]

Oops! I'm sorry, Liz and Kay, for getting your names confused!

 

[Kay]

Thank you Dee for your input! I have to laugh and blush a little at your comment about picking ONE just ONE!

Does THIS look any better??

Total oil weight 32
Water as percent of oil weight 38 %
Super Fat/Discount 10 %
Lye Concentration 25.576 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.91:1
Sat : Unsat Ratio 32 : 68
Iodine 67
INS 138
Fragrance Ratio 0
Fragrance Weight 0 Oz
Ingredient Pounds Ounces Grams
Water 0.76 12.16 344.73
Lye - NaOH 0.261 4.179 118.468
# √ Oil/Fat % Pounds Ounces Grams
1 Almond Oil, sweet 10 0.2 3.2 90.718
2 Castor Oil 5 0.1 1.6 45.359
3 Coconut Oil, 76 deg 20 0.4 6.4 181.437
4 Olive Oil 55 1.1 17.6 498.951
5 Mango Seed Butter 10 0.2 3.2 90.718
Totals 100 2 32 907.184
Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 31
Cleansing 12 - 22 13
Conditioning 44 - 69 66
Bubbly 14 - 46 18
Creamy 16 - 48 22
Iodine 41 - 70 67
INS 136 - 165 138
Lauric 10
Myristic 4
Palmitic 11
Stearic 6
Ricinoleic 4
Oleic 51
Linoleic 9
Linolenic 1

I did take out the Kokum and changed the other oil amounts some. Actually this gives me a much better conditioning soap! Thank you! I'm soo tired of playing with that darn soapcal! lol!

 

[Kay]

As for the name mix up. It's all good. As it ends up we're both from Indiana, so I can see where you'd get mixed up. We all look the same around here anyway!:wink:

 

[Kay]

On the fragrance note, can you suggest something else that would go with lemon and rose geranium that would be a good base note?

 

[DeeAnna]

From what I've read, lemon in soap may not last very long. Alternatives that may last better in soap might be lemongrass and may chang (litsea). I can attest that lemongrass "sticks".

I am not a fan of rose geranium, personally, so I can't advise about that one in an EO blend or how it works in soap.

Base note EOs are typically the resins, spices, and woods. Patchouli, frankincense, cedarwood, sandalwood ($$), vanilla are all examples. And also your rose. Many people use patchouli in varying amounts as a base note in soap fragrances. It can dominate a scent blend if used generously and that can be an issue -- people either love it or hate it. I know cedarwood also sticks in soap pretty well.