Does this drive you nuts?

[savonierre]

I find people that try to take the easy way never last very long in the business, it is a hard very costly business to be in.

 

[Miz Jenny]

It happens to me all the time. Mostly at my farmers markets. I smile and tell them my recipes are proprietary information and suggest they take to the internet and books and spend a couple years doing research and sample batches. At this point, they usually assume the deer in the headlights stare. My suggestion is to not get caught up in the anger because it will drive you nuts. Not an easy task because I constantly tell myself the same.

 

[Neve]

Haha deer in headlights! What, you mean you won't just hand it all over?

 

[Ruthie]

I've had a couple of people ask to "help" make soap, and I do not mind their company. I just mix up my oils ahead of time so I'm not giving away my "trade secrets" and make a simple oil/water/lye soap. If they find it gets them interested, fine. They can start their own research. If they are not interested (either in soapmaking or in researching for themselves) that is fine, too. And we are still friends. As far as strangers that come up and want me to spill my guts, I tell them about SMF. That is doing them a huge favor, whether they recognize it or not.

 

[Miz Jenny]

Haha deer in headlights! What, you mean you won't just hand it all over?

Nope. Last summer one very strange girl kept coming in and asking me how to make soap. I kept giving her the same answer and smiling as I said it. One day she got ugly and said "I want to know how "you" make soap." To which I replied "You will have to learn the same way I did and put in the same amount of time in research and testing. My recipes and methods are proprietary information and I'm not going to share them with you." At that point, I turned away from her to help another customer. She wasn't a customer (she'd never bought anything) and I didn't care if she ever came back. Believe me when I tell you, I have to be pushed to my last nerve to give that kind of response.

 

[dixiedragon]

Miz Jenny - how odd! I almost wonder if she wanted to "catch" you doing something "wrong" somehow. Very weird! And if she'd never bought anything from you, then it's not even a case of her wanting to duplicate your recipe b/c she loved it.

I'm not a seller (except at the very very occasional tiny craft show), so I have had far fewer opportunities to be hassled by nuts. I have had people ask me how I make soap - and I give a general answer, such as I mix oils and then I mix lye with water and mix them together. They usually ask, "What oils do you use?" so I tell them, "Mostly stuff you can buy at the grocery store. I use lard, olive oil and coconut oil." And that always satisfies them. Sometimes they'll ask something like, "Why coconut oil?" and I'll tell them it gives big, fluffy bubbles. I've never had anybody press me for my specific recipe. I tell them that I use this site for info, and also millersoap.com.

Next time I go to a craft show I think I will ask the people there (not just soapers) if they regularly have people demand their special recipe/technique. I'm just curious how wide-spread this is.

 

[Miz Jenny]

Miz Jenny - how odd! I almost wonder if she wanted to "catch" you doing something "wrong" somehow. Very weird! And if she'd never bought anything from you, then it's not even a case of her wanting to duplicate your recipe b/c she loved it.

She was very odd. Always got in my personal space and I had to keep backing up. She stared and her eyes never blinked. It was like she was stalking me. I'm sure y'all who do markets get women who proudly proclaim "I use Arbonne products because they're all natural. It says so on their website." It goes with the territory and makes for some interesting memories.

 

[cmzaha]

I'm actually a bit upset at this. As a newbie but someone who without any help so far who has successfully made 21 batches of soap and 4 failed batches. Reading a book a non stop research online then stumbling into this forum I now feel un-welcomed to ask questions.


If I was a no visit soap maker I would and WILL be sharing my knowledge with anyone who wants help.

Thank you for making me lurker within my first couple of weeks of signing up. roblem:

Congratulations on your 21 batches. Don't become a lurker, we have all asked questions. I even visit a forum that we tend to even pass along our recipes to each other. Most are seasoned, long time soapmakers and no one gets mad when asked a question. I even pm'ed a gal and asked how she made an item and she sent me her recipe. She has been selling for years and did not get mad when I asked, although I did not ask directly for her recipe just asked for recommendations. I tweaked it to suit me but she gave me some good ideas and a starting point.

I had a fella that does buy soap from me ask me how I make it. I told him the basics and actually told him where he could find recipes. A few months later he came to my booth all excited and told me I would be so excited that he finally made some soap. Actually I was very excited for him. LOL, he still bought a couple of bars of soap, and he shared with me his tooth cleaning recipe. Which I promised to never sell and he did not mind it I do want to sell it. You see, he has a son with stage 4 cancer (late 20's) whom is a musician and lost his hearing after a transplant procedure where they had to induce a coma. I met him at City of Hope's farmer market. He just wants to use all natural and is interested in how products are made. He is also going to bring me fresh aloe and a bar of soap! You just never know why someone is asking. Also if people are asking at market how you make soap many times they are just curious and when you mention sodium hydroxide they scare off quickly and say "Oh, I would be afraid to use that."

So don't just lurk and be afraid of asking questions. There is always something to learn by asking questions. After 6+ yrs of soapmaking I ask questions.

 

[DeeAnna]

"... Always got in my personal space and I had to keep backing up. She stared and her eyes never blinked...."

That sounds like a student I once had who had a type of high-functioning autism. He had awkward mannerisms, had difficulty reading social cues, and often was incredibly focused on a goal or idea to the point of obsession. You could describe him as a "nerd" or "geek" to an extreme degree, which is saying something because I am a card-carrying geek myself. I eventually learned I had to be, from my point of view, very blunt and borderline rude to communicate with him at times.

If Miz Jenny's "stalker" was like my student or had another type of mental disorder, then I can understand why the encounters were disturbing.

 

[Tienne]

My grandmother-in-law made the world's best bread. It was the best bread I have ever tasted. She refused to share her recipe with anyone and she took the recipe with her to the grave. I remember thinking how stupid that was and how selfish. All her knowledge and experience was lost and gone forever because of pride. She would rather everyone never have her bread ever again, than share the recipe so the people left behind could bake it and recall fond memories of her while they enjoyed "Grandma's bread". I think all her years of perfecting the bread were, as I see it, totally in vain because that gorgeous bread might just as well never have existed.

I will share any soap recipe I have made, with anyone who asks. I will share any knowledge or experience I have with anyone who asks, too. I would feel proud that anyone would want to make a soap I had formulated or asked me for advice about anything. I don't believe there are any shortcuts in life, so if a "lazy" newbie asked for a recipe, without the proper knowledge of what to actually do with those ingredients (and how and when), the recipe itself would be useless to them. Can you imagine someone with no background knowledge or willingness to learn the process, being able to throw together a recipe containing perhaps sugar, honey, beer or GM or any other specialty thing and have a good soap come out of it? I don't think so! LOL Just having the recipe isn't nearly enough to make a good soap.

I was raised to share and to know, that I lose nothing thereby. (Something akin to a "you always get back more than you give" kind of mentality.) Even if people are ungrateful or lazy or mooching, that does not reflect back on me. As long as my "karma" is okay, it's all good. I will always share because that's the kind of person I want to be. Generous and helpful. I leave it up to the receiver to decide what kind of person THEY want to be.

That being said, I DO understand and acknowledge the need for people who sell soap to have proprietary secrets and to keep those secrets. If soapmaking is one's livelihood, then that's a whole 'nother ballgame. I would just politely answer any competitor with an ingredients list, but without the specifics. (Percentages, procedures, temps, techniques, etc) Those are the most important parts of making a good soap, IMO. The ingredients list is the least of one's worries!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I find the comparison slightly fallacious - If you want to recreate Gammy's bread, you would need all the information, not just what goes in - a recipe is more than just a list of what goes in. It might have 10gms Cardamom seeds, but without knowing that she splits them then roasts them and finally grinds them up, you wouldn't make her bread.

Likewise, the examples here are more than just people how know soaping and are looking for a little chat about ingredients. They want everything spoon fed to them, process and amounts and so on - like you would need to really recreate the bread of your grand-mamma. But whereas your family have a perfectly good reason to want the bread information, these people should buy the soap!

Now, if people want to make soap in general, I'd point them in the right direction gladly. If they wanted to know how to make one of MY soaps, they'd have to go and learn for themselves what it is that makes my soap so good and then do it themselves - I wouldn't help someone to produce something that I want to sell to them.

 

[Miz Jenny]

"... Always got in my personal space and I had to keep backing up. She stared and her eyes never blinked...."

That sounds like a student I once had who had a type of high-functioning autism. He had awkward mannerisms, had difficulty reading social cues, and often was incredibly focused on a goal or idea to the point of obsession. You could describe him as a "nerd" or "geek" to an extreme degree, which is saying something because I am a card-carrying geek myself. I eventually learned I had to be, from my point of view, very blunt and borderline rude to communicate with him at times.

If Miz Jenny's "stalker" was like my student or had another type of mental disorder, then I can understand why the encounters were disturbing.

This describes her exactly! The last time she was in I had to pointedly turn my back on her. I could feel her staring a hole through my back but she finally left. I was a bit unnerved and it has haunted me because I have a very sound relationship with my customers. Hopefully, she won't be back.