Do short shelf life oils make short shelf life soaps?

[Alg587]

I have been using flax, hemp and sunflower in low quantities for my cold process soap. Will that make the bars have a short shelf life once it’s cured? I searched all over the internet and couldn’t get a clear answer.

 

[Kittish]

Alas, there isn't really a cut and dry clear answer. The best anyone can do is 'maybe'. There are a lot of factors that come into play regarding shelf life and causes of DOS and rancidity, oil composition is only one of them.

 

[SaltedFig]

In low quantities (not sure how low you are talking), as long as the oils are reasonably fresh and kept well, you shouldn't see any difference in the longevity of your final soap.

Obviously there are many other considerations, but in general low volumes means less trouble.

I have been making batches of soap with hemp seed oil again over the last few years (after a gap while it was hard to get) at a usage rate under 10%. All of the testers from these batches are in excellent condition, so I would vouch for good quality hemp seed oil in soap at low usage rates.

 

[Alg587]

I have hemp and flax at 4.5% each and sunflower was at 10%. I think unless someone has tried this, only time will tell. Unfortunately I bought 7 pounds of each before knowing the shelf life and am trying to decide if I should toss it or make all of it and hope for the best.

 

[Kittish]

I have hemp and flax at 4.5% each and sunflower was at 10%. I think unless someone has tried this, only time will tell. Unfortunately I bought 7 pounds of each before knowing the shelf life and am trying to decide if I should toss it or make all of it and hope for the best.

So long as the oils don't smell off or rancid, I'd keep using them. Storing them in the fridge can help extend their shelf life until you are able to use them.

 

[SunRiseArts]

I made soap with grape seed oil a few months ago, maybe 6 or less? The thread is somewhere out there.

I was warned about the short life of grapeseed. I still have a few bars and they still look lovely and smell divine. So I am not sure what you are making, but if you think there is short shelf life just use within 6 month. I separated one to look at in one year, so if I remember I will come back with an update.

Short shelf life, does not equal bad soap IMO.

BUT (there is always one)

if the oil is fixing to expire my guess would be, and I am only guessing, that it might depend on how much you super fat. I super fat at 3%, but if you super fat at high amounts, then perhaps the oil that does not go through the saponification process could tend to go rancid? It would make sense.

 

[DandelionLeaf]

I'm no expert (!), but if shelf-life of oils is a problem in the finished product, would grapefruit seed extract (as Cavitch uses in her books/recipes) make them more stable and last longer?

Could you also use wheatgerm/vit E/ antioxidants to prolong the soap's life? (all just questions as I've been wondering about this myself!).

 

[wickedblonde]

(good question... I'm curious about this as well)

 

[Kittish]

I'm no expert (!), but if shelf-life of oils is a problem in the finished product, would grapefruit seed extract (as Cavitch uses in her books/recipes) make them more stable and last longer?

Could you also use wheatgerm/vit E/ antioxidants to prolong the soap's life? (all just questions as I've been wondering about this myself!).

Grapefruit seed extract doesn't really work to prevent oils going off. Vitamin E also doesn't work very well. The very best combination to prevent rancidity is BHT plus sodium citrate. ROE works reasonably well alone, if you don't want to get into chemical additives. EDTA also works fairly well alone, and does pretty well in combination with ROE. ROE plus sodium citrate is not a good combination, though.

Information is from Scientific Soapmaking by Kevin Dunn.

 

[SunRiseArts]

Lard like armour has preservatives in them. Maybe that would help the batch as a hole? I have no idea, but maybe?

 

[seven8soap]

I have/do on occasion make soap with rancid oil. I super fat at 1-2% and the soap comes out fine. Also, dos soap is safe to use. My husband loves that smell. He says it smells like soap did when he was a kid. Strange man, that one.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Tips to extend the shelf life of oils:

Although Cavitch soaped at 10% SF and used GSE (grapefruit seed extract) to prevent rancidity, later studies show that not only does GSE not work as well as some other options, but it's expensive as well.

Add antioxidants ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) and Vitamin E at 1% when you first open the container and to the soap batch as well. ETA: I found an unopened 4 oz. bottle of Flaxseed Shampoo made 3-4 years ago and it was as good as the day it was made... I'm just sayin'... don't toss those oils... find ways to use them up.

Instead of sunflower oil, use high oleic sunflower oil (ditto for canola, safflower, etc).

Soap at 0% - 5% superfat in most cases.

Keep cold and out of the light.

I have hemp and flax at 4.5% each and sunflower was at 10%. I think unless someone has tried this, only time will tell.

I think you're safe with those %s for those oils. No worries.

Unfortunately I bought 7 pounds of each before knowing the shelf life and am trying to decide if I should toss it or make all of it and hope for the best.

If you're interested in trying to make stuff other than CP to use up those oils --

Infuse the sunflower with calendula petals (and/or other herbs); strain; add 15% beeswax for a nice lip balm; soothing baby bum balm/herbal salve, etc.

Flaxseed (Liquid) Shampoo: flaxseed 82%, rosin 15%, coconut 3%

NOTE: You can use short shelf life oils at greater percentages in liquid soap because it doesn't matter as much as it does in hard bars where they tend to make softer bars.
ETA: I recently found a sealed bottle of Flaxseed Shampoo that was 3-4 years oil and it was as good as the day it was made. I just sayin'... please don't toss those oils... find ways to use them up.

 

[Saponificarian]

I have 3 batches that used Hempseed and Grapeseed oil at 20%. So batch 1 Hempseed at 20% batch 2, Grapeseed at 20%. Batch 3 10% each Grapeseed and Hempseed oil. They were made in July and they are still fine. I want to see if and when they will get DOS. I used 1% citric acid in each batch to try to keep DOS at bay.

 

[rjlnokom]

Grapefruit seed extract doesn't really work to prevent oils going off. Vitamin E also doesn't work very well. The very best combination to prevent rancidity is BHT plus sodium citrate. ROE works reasonably well alone, if you don't want to get into chemical additives. EDTA also works fairly well alone, and does pretty well in combination with ROE. ROE plus sodium citrate is not a good combination, though.

Information is from Scientific Soapmaking by Kevin Dunn.

Hi there! Just wondering how much or what is the measurement guide I should follow in using BHT and Sodium Citrate in soap making. Should I use equal amounts of BHT and Sodium Citrate? And how much do I need to add? Thanks!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I'm not a scientist, just a lowly soaper for 13 years. I've used ROE and vitamin E (antioxidants) in just about every batch (hard bars and liquid) I've made and never had DOS or even soda ash, for that matter. I just soaped HO sunflower oil infused with hyssop with ROE & vitamin E added (at 1%) that's been sitting on the shelf for a year and I wanted to use it up. Smelled fine before and after soaping. No worries.

That being said, I don't think you need to worry about adding BHT or Sodium Citrate to your soap at all. I honestly don't know of anyone who does that, altho I suspect there are some SMF members who do.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would exclude the sodium citrate comment from the above post. Many soapers (here, anyway) use it as a chelator, nothing to do with rancidity at all

 

[rjlnokom]

I would exclude the sodium citrate comment from the above post. Many soapers (here, anyway) use it as a chelator, nothing to do with rancidity at all

Hi there! Thank you sharing your comment! I was researching which is the best preservative you can use and I was given a link regarding a study which you can also view here: http://cavemanchemistry.com/DreadedOrangeSpot-Dunn.pdf

And in the last part the author did mention that one of the best combination of preservative was BHT with Sodium Citrate.

So now I'm even more confused.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

In combination, it might well be very effective. But sodium citrate might do much for rancidity on its own.

It does, however, help with hard water, so shouldn't be totally discounted as an additive simply based on the need to prevent DOS or not

 

[rjlnokom]

In combination, it might well be very effective. But sodium citrate might do much for rancidity on its own.

It does, however, help with hard water, so shouldn't be totally discounted as an additive simply based on the need to prevent DOS or not

Thank you so much for your comment @The Efficacious Gentleman !

Would someone know much is the recommend measurement of both chemicals to be effective?

And how about EDTA? Which is more effective between the two? EDTA or BHT + Sodium Citrate? And how much EDTA is recommend usage?

Thanks!

 

[dibbles]

Would someone know much is the recommend measurement of both chemicals to be effective?

And how about EDTA? Which is more effective between the two? EDTA or BHT + Sodium Citrate? And how much EDTA is recommend usage?

Thanks!

Here is a link to some articles written by SMF member DeeAnna. I gave you the link to the page because there is a lot of good information to be found there. Scroll down to the chelator and antioxidant sections for answers to your specific questions.