Distinguishing Soap Recipes on Etsy

[FGOriold]

We're on the same page, AnnaMarie - but as you say, you are in line with the FDA as you do have more than just INCI listings, you have the warning and so on.

With with the drugs/cosmetics issue, there were posts were suggesting that as it was okay with Etsy to make the claims, it was okay. It left out the fact that there is proper labeling required, which I felt was misleading. As well as the suggestion that it is not overly important to worry about the FDA when making cosmetic claims, which is also misleading. Sure, the requirements are less with a cosmetic claim than a drug claim, but you still have to follow them

You obviously read far too much or too little into my initial post and filled in with your own words or thoughts on the issue - not really sure why you are now making and posting assumptions of my intent. Apparently you assumed because I said Etsy will allow cosmetic claims to be made, that I was also saying that was all that mattered and to disregard the FDA. Not so.

Nowhere did I say that a seller should not follow the FDA guidelines or make it sound like they can be overlooked for cosmetic claims - my feelings are just the opposite. But it is also up to the seller to be informed as to what those are. So, when someone asks about how they can describe their product for selling and on a specific selling venue, it is really a 3 part question and answer.

1. How can one describe their product and how does that then classify the product.
2. What then are the FDA labeling laws for said product
3. Will the venue have restrictions on said product

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

You obviously read far too much or too little into my initial post and filled in with your own words or thoughts on the issue - not really sure why you are now making and posting assumptions of my intent. Apparently you assumed because I said Etsy will allow cosmetic claims to be made, that I was also saying that was all that mattered and to disregard the FDA. Not so.

Nowhere did I say that a seller should not follow the FDA guidelines or make it sound like they can be overlooked for cosmetic claims - my feelings are just the opposite. But it is also up to the seller to be informed as to what those are. So, when someone asks about how they can describe their product for selling and on a specific selling venue, it is really a 3 part question and answer.

1. How can one describe their product and how does that then classify the product.
2. What then are the FDA labeling laws for said product
3. Will the venue have restrictions on said product

I am sorry, but I did say "suggested", and not "it said........." because it was how I took it rather than what you meant. Obviously, unless something in written form is 100% unambiguous it will always have an element of suggestion in there.

And yes, you didn't say that the FDA regs need to be followed, but you also didn't say that they did! When someone new is asking about labeling like that, and it is clear in their post that it is a wider issue than just the Etsy ToS (and is was very clear in the original post, regardless of the thread title, that it was a general question about labeling, not just Etsy from the whole "................I have a question about what I can and cannot do to describe my soap while selling (mostly on Etsy)......................" then it is misleading to stop with out giving information on the wider issues.

I stand by that statement, very much so.

To say it is up to the seller to be informed, but then to not inform them, is then making the whole idea of answering the question in to a nonsense.

 

[Tienne]

"I know making cosmetic claims is a big no no for soap, so is there a way to get around that?"

I don't sell, so FDA and whatnot isn't really anything I bother reading too much about but... what if you had a soap with for example calendula in it and in the description wrote something like "Calendula is known for its soothing properties blah blah blah." You wouldn't then actually be making any claim about the soap itself, but about the calendula. I have seen some soaps for sale that talk about the properties of the different ingredients and not of the soap itself, such as what vitamins the ingredient contains or the historical use of said ingredients and so on. Maybe you could get your point across about the soap that way and not be in breach of any rules? As stated, I don't know anything about the FDA etc, but that wouldn't that be a doable and legal workaround?

 

[AnnaMarie]

Tienne, I see a lot of soap makers using that tactic. I don't go there too much myself, but it definitely is a common practice.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I must admit, thinking of ways to word it that might get the point over with out actually falling foul of the law is jolly hard. I've seen some, like CA (Bath House Basics) that put some of the nicer ingredients in the title which gives that impression (shea butter sounds like it's good) or words like luxurious, which avoids the issue completely.

 

[FGOriold]

"I know making cosmetic claims is a big no no for soap, so is there a way to get around that?"

I don't sell, so FDA and whatnot isn't really anything I bother reading too much about but... what if you had a soap with for example calendula in it and in the description wrote something like "Calendula is known for its soothing properties blah blah blah." You wouldn't then actually be making any claim about the soap itself, but about the calendula. I have seen some soaps for sale that talk about the properties of the different ingredients and not of the soap itself, such as what vitamins the ingredient contains or the historical use of said ingredients and so on. Maybe you could get your point across about the soap that way and not be in breach of any rules? As stated, I don't know anything about the FDA etc, but that wouldn't that be a doable and legal workaround?

That tactic would fall under intended use for soap. If your marketing is touting that an ingredient will do more than cleanse, you may have crossed over into cosmetic.

From the FDA:

"To meet the definition of soap in FDA’s regulations, a product has to meet three conditions:

What it’s made of: To be regulated as “soap,” the product must be composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids,” that is, the material you get when you combine fats or oils with an alkali, such as lye.

What ingredients cause its cleaning action: To be regulated as “soap,” those “alkali salts of fatty acids” must be the only material that results in the product’s cleaning action. If the product contains synthetic detergents, it’s a cosmetic, not a soap. You still can use the word “soap” on the label.

How it's intended to be used: To be regulated as soap, it must be labeled and marketed only for use as soap. If it is intended for purposes such as moisturizing the skin, making the user smell nice, or deodorizing the user’s body, it’s a cosmetic. Or, if the product is intended to treat or prevent disease, such as by killing germs, or treating skin conditions, such as acne or eczema, it’s a drug. You still can use the word “soap” on the label."

 

[Lindy]

In Canada you have to register your recipes and have very stringent labeling requirements. I am sorry I gave poor information based on assumptions regarding the US based on the lack of registration. In Canada we are required to only put warnings on for avoidable hazards such as hair dye. In the workshops that I teach I recommend that warnings such as "For external use only" " Not recommended for women who are pregnant" for certain essential oils as well as "Discontinue use should a rash or irritation occur". We are not required to do that though. We are required to use INCI and list essential oils by the botanical names rather than parfum. We also have to label in French and English. Once you understand the requirements it is not that difficult.

 

[AnnaMarie]

Thank you FGOriold. That is exactly how I understand the FDA regulations.

 

[hmlove1218]

So all the people who are trying to get around the cosmetic labeling requirements by doing that are actually in the wrong? Like if there's a lavender soap that they just describe as soap but then explain how lavender is believed to help produce a deeper sleep. Am I understanding this right or has my brain short circuited?

 

[LaurensSoapShop]

In Canada you have to register your recipes and have very stringent labeling requirements. I am sorry I gave poor information based on assumptions regarding the US based on the lack of registration. In Canada we are required to only put warnings on for avoidable hazards such as hair dye. In the workshops that I teach I recommend that warnings such as "For external use only" " Not recommended for women who are pregnant" for certain essential oils as well as "Discontinue use should a rash or irritation occur". We are not required to do that though. We are required to use INCI and list essential oils by the botanical names rather than parfum. We also have to label in French and English. Once you understand the requirements it is not that difficult.

So if I sold soap to someone in Canada I would have to have proper labeling? Or is that only if you're selling in Canada?

 

[LaurensSoapShop]

At the risk of putting many noses out of joint today, please please PLEASE do read this



http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/CosmeticLabelingLabelClaims/CosmeticLabelingManual/ucm126444.htm



If you are selling something that is classed as a cosmetic, there is a wee bit more than just INCI names. There is no requirement for registration and testing, as Lindy said, although the point about testing being required when using colours was left out. But as you can see in the link, what the FDA requires on the label is not as simple as INCI.



There is, as an example, this little gem -

-------------------------------

Cosmetics With Unsubstantiated Safety

Warning--The safety of this product has not been determined.



21 CFR 740.10



A cosmetic is considered misbranded if its safety has not adequately been substantiated, and it does not bear the following conspicuous statement on the PDP:



Warning - The safety of this product has not been determined.



---------------------------



So, with just INCI ingredients and a cosmetic claim but no warning, a product is not correctly labeled in the eyes of the FDA.



The regulations don't seem to be too arduous, which is a very good thing. But that does not lower their importance.

Thank you for the info. So as long as I use natural colorants (which are FDA approved), INCI labeling and display a warning on my label I can sell my soap as a cosmetic, no need for testing etc?

 

[judymoody]

Yes, I think so.

Soap doesn't moisturize by the way. Condition, yes, moisturize no.

If it were me, I'd sidestep the issue entirely by using words like "gentle" or "luxurious."

 

[Lindy]

So if I sold soap to someone in Canada I would have to have proper labeling? Or is that only if you're selling in Canada?

If you are selling into Canada on a wholesale level you would have to register your recipes with Health Canada and follow Canadian guidelines. If you are only selling retail into Canada you don't have to worry about it unless you are targeting the Canadian market. But if people just happen to see your product and want it, again, you're fine with US standards.

So all the people who are trying to get around the cosmetic labeling requirements by doing that are actually in the wrong? Like if there's a lavender soap that they just describe as soap but then explain how lavender is believed to help produce a deeper sleep. Am I understanding this right or has my brain short circuited?

That's right. You cannot discuss what an additive does on a medicinal or therapeutic level.

 

[new12soap]

INCI name of ingredients is not required for cosmetics labels in the US. Common name is also acceptable.

eta: Common name is required, INCI can be included as a secondary option.

 

[LaurensSoapShop]

Feel like I need to be a lawyer to understand and navigate the FDA website! They couldn't make a check list or something simple?

 

[hmlove1218]

Feel like I need to be a lawyer to understand and navigate the FDA website! They couldn't make a check list or something simple?

Ha I feel the same way! I like that Soap Queen's website breaks things down where I can understand it, bit at the same time I'm worried about what if they interpret it and I'm just trusting them. Then I'm at fault because I got my information from a second source and not the law itself..

 

[FGOriold]

This person is the expert on labeling in the USA.

http://mariegale.com/

I have her book and have reviewed info on her website too.

 

[SoapAddict415]

I wonder if you could use a disclaimer on the lable like "these statements have not be approved by the FDA"?

 

[soapballs]

You can say that it include such and such and then say that such and such has been known to be moisturizing. In that do not say that your soap is moisturizing. But with saying such and such that is included in your bar has known moisturizing effects the normal consumer with put two and two together and understand that your bar of soap is moisturizing without having to make that claim and getting into the FDA requirements and such. You could do this also with EO that are known for certain medical benefits - just never make the claim your soap is the one giving the medical benefits.

 

[FGOriold]

You can say that it include such and such and then say that such and such has been known to be moisturizing. In that do not say that your soap is moisturizing. But with saying such and such that is included in your bar has known moisturizing effects the normal consumer with put two and two together and understand that your bar of soap is moisturizing without having to make that claim and getting into the FDA requirements and such. You could do this also with EO that are known for certain medical benefits - just never make the claim your soap is the one giving the medical benefits.

Again, anytime you allude to an intended purpose of a product or an ingredient in the product via marketing, statements in a product description even testimonials as anything other than cleansing, you are no longer selling just soap but either a cosmetic or drug depending on the claim being made.