Dishwashing liquid

[craziedde]

Hello,

I'm looking for dishwasing liquid recipe for about a year now. ( hand wash that is )
And looks like I'm not much of success so far.

I want this recipe to be compatible with vinegar as it seems to be an excellent ingredient to fight grease.
Coastal soap is not a very compatible as it reacts to vinegar. And not really good at washing off the grease.
Also would be nice for it to be foaming ( as I'm using foaming soap dispensers )

So far I'm with chems which is not really good but mix well with vinegar and good at de-grease.
( Sodium laureth sulfate or Sodium Coco Sulfate both are controversial )

Thanks,

Eduard

 

[IrishLass]

I haven't made dishwashing liquid myself, but it's next on my list to try since I just learned how to make liquid soap. Most people I've read about who make liquid soap for handwashing dishes use 100% coconut oil saponified with KOH (potassium hydroxide) and water (or glycerin in place of the water) with a zero % superfat. This will make a very cleansing liquid soap, but I wouldn't be mixing any vinegar with it, though. That's because soap made with KOH is a 'true soap'- i.e., an alkali salt of a fatty acid as opposed to a detergent like SLS and the like- which means that it's alkaline nature makes it vulnerable to substances that push the pH out of the alkaline zone (like vinegar). Others may be able to explain it better than I, but if the pH gets much below 8, the soap loses it's cleansing power because it will have ceased to be soap. The fatty acids will separate out and will add to your grease problem instead of eliminating it. If you are wanting to add vinegar with liquid soap, it is best to use it with detergent-based cleanser instead of a' true' soap.


HTH
IrishLass

 

[craziedde]

IrishLass you got me reading more about Potassium hydroxide.
And from what I read it makes a excellent liquid soap ( as vs lye that makes it harder bar soap )
But as far as property goes it most likely very similar to castile soap.
I will be trying your recipe in a future ( for liquid soap for hands but not for dishes ).

NY we have pretty hard water.
What I learned about adding vinegar to dishwash does the trick of washing oils and fats...
So I'm still in search...
It may take me a lifetime but I will find it...

More hints are welcome

P.S. Thanks IrishLass for tip that will definitely use.
( just will need to get Potassium hydoxide.... I do have coconut oil )

 

[IrishLass]

IrishLass you got me reading more about Potassium hydroxide.
And from what I read it makes a excellent liquid soap ( as vs lye that makes it harder bar soap )
But as far as property goes it most likely very similar to castile soap.
I will be trying your recipe in a future ( for liquid soap for hands but not for dishes ).

Just a head's up that you may find that recipe with 100% coconut oil kind of harsh on the hands depending on your skin-type. That's because coconut oil in liquid soap and bar soap is an excellent cleanser of oils, especially when used in high percents like 100%- so much so that it will leave your hands feeling very dry unless you superfat it. I venture to say, though, that it may very well be that a 100% coconut oil liquid soap with a zero% superfat will even do better at cleaning grease than detergents mixed with vinegar. I haven't tested that theory out yet, but like I mentioned in my previous post- it's next on my list to try.

For a good liquid hand soap recipe that bubbles and cleans well without being too drying on the skin, you can use a mix of oils like olive, castor, coconut, etc.... my favorite recipe to date for liquid soap that's used for handwashing is this one that I just made last week:

35% coconut oil
30% castor oil
20% cocoa butter
10% olive oil
5% shea butter

I superfatted it at 3% using SummerBeeMeadow's liquid soap calculator, and made it via the glycerin method (i.e., I dissolved my KOH in boiling glycerin intead of water). You can read about the glycerin method of liquid soapmaking here: http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/index ... pic=146547

NY we have pretty hard water.
What I learned about adding vinegar to dishwash does the trick of washing oils and fats...
So I'm still in search...
It may take me a lifetime but I will find it...

More hints are welcome

P.S. Thanks IrishLass for tip that will definitely use.
( just will need to get Potassium hydoxide.... I do have coconut oil )

It's funny that you should mention the vinegar trick. Over the weekend I mixed 1/3 cup of Dawn liquid dish detergent with 1 cup of vinegar to use on my shower doors to get the soap scum off. I read about it on a different forum and thought I'd give it a try to see how it does. I haven't used it yet, though. All I did was mix it in preparation for when I clean my bathroom in the next few days.


IrishLass

 

[craziedde]

Just a head's up that you may find that recipe with 100% coconut oil kind of harsh on the hands depending on your skin-type. That's because coconut oil in liquid soap and bar soap is an excellent cleanser of oils, especially when used in high percents like 100%- so much so that it will leave your hands feeling very dry unless you superfat it. I venture to say, though, that it may very well be that a 100% coconut oil liquid soap with a zero% superfat will even do better at cleaning grease than detergents mixed with vinegar. I haven't tested that theory out yet, but like I mentioned in my previous post- it's next on my list to try.

You convinced me I will be trying coconut oil based dishwash when I will get all components together.

For a good liquid hand soap recipe that bubbles and cleans well without being too drying on the skin, you can use a mix of oils like olive, castor, coconut, etc.... my favorite recipe to date for liquid soap that's used for handwashing is this one that I just made last week:

35% coconut oil
30% castor oil
20% cocoa butter
10% olive oil
5% shea butter

So far my creativity was very limited. I just made my liquid castile soap with olive oil + lye, cold press. And then just dissolve it into water.
It came out ok... But I'm sure yours is much better.

I superfatted it at 3% using SummerBeeMeadow's liquid soap calculator, and made it via the glycerin method (i.e., I dissolved my KOH in boiling glycerin intead of water). You can read about the glycerin method of liquid soapmaking here: http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/index ... pic=146547

Makes me wonder what extra benefit does qlycerin brings as vs just water. Probably elasticity of some kind? Also I think it has some slight drying effect to the skin...

It's funny that you should mention the vinegar trick. Over the weekend I mixed 1/3 cup of Dawn liquid dish detergent with 1 cup of vinegar to use on my shower doors to get the soap scum off. I read about it on a different forum and thought I'd give it a try to see how it does. I haven't used it yet, though. All I did was mix it in preparation for when I clean my bathroom in the next few days.

Well vinegar is not a magic bullet. But it will kill bacteria efficiently enough. Also very effective on fat.
I use vinegar as general purpouse cleaner and pretty much all around my house.
It took my family 1 year just to adjust to smell.

 

[IrishLass]

Makes me wonder what extra benefit does qlycerin brings as vs just water. Probably elasticity of some kind? Also I think it has some slight drying effect to the skin...

No, it doesn't bring any elasticity that I've noticed (if I understand rightly what you mean by elasticty), but because of glycerin's miscibility with oils (as opposed to water's non-miscibility with oils), the biggest benefit is that things move fast, i.e. it can take as little as 3 -5 minutes to reach trace and the taffy/paste stage. Basically, with the glycerin method you can make your liquid soap paste in the morning, dilute it in the afternoon, and bottle it in the evening (which I've done quite easily with a little help from a small amount of sodium lactate to break up the paste more efficiently). The glycerin also comes in handy in helping to keep separation at bay and it helps with clarity and thickness.

On page 35 of that thread I gave you a link to in my previous post, a poster who is a retired doctor (named SilverDoctor) wrote that the glycerin method actually originated in the pharmeceutical industry to save pharmacists time when they needed to make huge lots of green soap. They needed a method that didn't take hours and so they ended up devising the glycerin method.

I personally don't find glycerin drying at all. I guess it all depends on individual skin-type, but my liquid soap batches that I've made so far feel quite nice to my hands. I will say, however, that my hands do feel a little sticky for about 3 to five seconds after washing with my glycerin liquid soap and drying off, but the stickiness totally goes away in a few seconds and then my hands feel quite nice.

Well vinegar is not a magic bullet. But it will kill bacteria efficiently enough. Also very effective on fat.
I use vinegar as general purpouse cleaner and pretty much all around my house.
It took my family 1 year just to adjust to smell.

IrishLass

 

[carolyntn]

I make liquid soap for hand washing (not dishes) and have used both the traditional water method and the glycerin method (per the directions on The Dish Forum). I find the glycerin method is less drying for a hand soap. So when I finally make my own dish washing liquid I will use the water method with 100% coconut. Like Irish Lass it is next on my list of things to try!!!
Liquid soap can be diluted thin enough to use in a foam pump. Also, you could use essential oils like folded lemon or orange to boost the degreasing effect. I use 15x orange essential oil and 5x lemon essential oil to scent my liquid soap.
I keep a spray bottle next to my kitchen sink filled with distiller vinegar. Handy for spraying down all kinds of stuff in the kitchen.

Irish Lass in your recipe do you find the cocoa butter and Shea butter results in a slightly cloudy soap? Also how do you use the sodium lactate exactly?
Thanks,
Carolyntn

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

I live in the city where the water is very hard I use 100% coconut oil in my dish soap I get great lather that last well I do get the milky water, I use lemon EO in mine I just lotion my hands when done

 

[craziedde]

No, it doesn't bring any elasticity that I've noticed (if I understand rightly what you mean by elasticty), but because of glycerin's miscibility with oils (as opposed to water's non-miscibility with oils), the biggest benefit is that things move fast, i.e. it can take as little as 3 -5 minutes to reach trace and the taffy/paste stage. Basically, with the glycerin method you can make your liquid soap paste in the morning, dilute it in the afternoon, and bottle it in the evening (which I've done quite easily with a little help from a small amount of sodium lactate to break up the paste more efficiently). The glycerin also comes in handy in helping to keep separation at bay and it helps with clarity and thickness.

Thanks you for explanation on glycerin.
Main point: Glycerin brings acceleration to the process.
One concern maybe is that its widely used in all type of industries. ( food, cosmetic, pharma )
I know that is very low toxicity, but as with anything else: To much of anything is not good for you.
But that been said.. I will be experimenting with it.
My agenda in soap making is a part of my overall goal, to loose all chems around me. That would include cosmetics, food.... anything and everything. From toothpaste to a chicken soap I ate today. I strongly believe that inorganic compounds are cancerogenic. Not intended by nature. Not tested long enough ( more then a few generation need to evaluate the product to have anything to say about its effect on the body.... few rat tests, by the people with self interest, is simply not enough ).
All and all inorganic materials will lead to all kind of mess in the body.
My simplest rule for cosmetics or cleaning solution: if its good enough to eat its good enough to clean/use etc. You get my point, I think

On page 35 of that thread I gave you a link to in my previous post, a poster who is a retired doctor (named SilverDoctor) wrote that the glycerin method actually originated in the pharmeceutical industry to save pharmacists time when they needed to make huge lots of green soap. They needed a method that didn't take hours and so they ended up devising the glycerin method.

It was intresting new fact about "green soap". And pleasing to know that pharma boys are also into natural soap making. And use it to treat skin disorders

 

[craziedde]

I live in the city where the water is very hard I use 100% coconut oil in my dish soap I get great lather that last well I do get the milky water, I use lemon EO in mine I just lotion my hands when done

Lemon EO for scent?
How effective your soap on oils and fats? Lets say oil on plastic container how well will it be washed?

Also do you use lower end coconut oils? http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/t ... --2/Detail
Or real food grade high end expensive type?

You know guys you could be on the right track with coconut oil.... Because even Sodium laureth sulfate or Sodium Coco Sulfate are made from Coconut and both make soap that very effective on oils and fats. ( none organic, chem based soap )

 

[DragonQueenHHP]

Lemon for scent and grease cutting also my daughter reminded me that I added few drops of Lavender for the anti Bactria
and it cleans EVERYTHING super great!! I have not had any problems
on and cheap type coconut oil in bucket :wink:

 

[IrishLass]

Irish Lass in your recipe do you find the cocoa butter and Shea butter results in a slightly cloudy soap? Also how do you use the sodium lactate exactly?
Thanks,
Carolyntn

Yes, the cocoa butter/shea recipe comes out slightly cloudy, but that doesn't bother me. As long as it doesn't separate, I'm good. 8) I added 2% stearic acid to one of my cocoa/shea diiutions like 3bees~1flower suggests in that Dish thread, and it comes out beautifully pearly looking. It feels really nice, too. I've made 4 different recipes so far, and the cocoa/shea with the 2% stearic is my favorite.

Re: the sodium lactate, I use 3% SL (the liquid kind in a 60% solution as opposed to the dry form) as per weight of my paste. When I measure out my dilution water, I just add the SL to it, heat them to boiling together, and then pour over my paste (I use 3bees~1flower's canning jar method of dilution, which I love for it's simplicity and ease). The SL really helps the dilution part go much smoother and quicker (1/2 hour tops).

 

[carolyntn]

Thank you Irish Lass! I have stearic acid so I might try that - especially if you get a great hand feel. I remember from the thread that it contributes a pearlish look but didnt know the other qualities it contributes. I don't mind cloudy LS and may try your shea butter recipe this fall because it sounds like a nice winter liquid soap.
Thanks,
Carolyntn

 

[craziedde]

Hi all,

Took me a while to get all ingredients together for %100 coconut oil dishwash.
Well, results are mixed.
Result seems to be a good liquid coastal oil.
But after trying it all day today.... I must say its not as effective on grease and mold as vinegar is.
So I'm back to my original question. ( plus I have some more now )

1. What foaming agent can be used in conjunction with %100 vinegar? ( so far I found it the most effective on fats and mold )
2. I have a butch of liquid %100 coconut soap. Can I mix it in with some other liquid soap to use it a general hand/body soap? (post mixing )
3. When I was making soap . As soon as I started mixing it... started to get very aggressive ( it was hot when I was mixing it )
Here are my steps:
water + koh then slow add oil and then slow heating. ( but when I wast trying to stir it while still hot ) it acted very aggressive .. Is that normal? Or I did something wrong. Also I used a wooden spoon...
4. KOH - health issues. Those seems to be a bit harsh... How do they effect health? My whole point in soap making is to get away from chemicals... but KOH seems to be so aggressive that it makes me wonder a my doing a good or rather a harm? By breathing and making a soap out of it...


So many off topic question please pardon me.

And thanks for all help

Eduard

 

[new12soap]

I am not sure about cleaning mold (all I can say is be careful, some molds can be very dangerous), but as for wanting a more natural grease cutter for you dishes, try adding a bit of d-limonene.

http://shop.citrusdepot.net/product.sc? ... egoryId=-1

From the website:
"d-Limonene from Citrus Depot is a very effective, biodegradable solvent and degreaser, occurring in nature as the main component of citrus peel oil. Due to its attractive odor, versatility and GRAS rating (Generally Recognized As Safe) from US FDA, d-Limonene can be used safely and effectively in a wide range of products for an infinite number of applications."

It mixes very well with true soap, I have heard of several people using it in homemade cleaning products as well as mechanic's soap to cut grease.

My whole point in soap making is to get away from chemicals... but KOH seems to be so aggressive that it makes me wonder a my doing a good or rather a harm? By breathing and making a soap out of it...

Both sodium hydroxide (lye, caustic soda) and potassium hydroxide (potash) are chemicals. The idea is that after saponification all of the lye has been used up and there is none left in the soap because it has all BECOME soap.

Glycerin is a natural byproduct of soapmaking, your soap has it in it unless it has been removed. It is also a natural humectant (draws and holds on to moisture) which is why it is so widely used in cosmetics as a skin moisturizer. Most vegetable based glycerin is food grade and safe to eat.

 

[craziedde]

...d-Limonene...
It mixes very well with true soap, I have heard of several people using it in homemade cleaning products as well as mechanic's soap to cut grease.

Thanks for heads up.
I will be trying d-Limonene and evaluate several different options

d-Limonene + coastal soap
d-Limonene + vinegar
And maybe some other variations

d-LImonene may be not totally green. But its the "greenest" that I have found so far.

You mentioned that KOH will mix with oil and produce a new product ( natural soap )
Just out of curiosity what is that product chemically?

 

[andoy]

when I first made Potassium based liquid soaps. I made a dishwasher type liquid soap using 100% coconut oil. It washed, but I didn't think it was good dishwashing soap. It is quite drying to the hands and not as effective on grease as dishwashing products available in shops.

I personally think you will struggle to produce a decent dishwashing liquid as a "real soap" (KOH or NaOH against animal/vegetable fat even if you over-alkalise). Firstly, dish washing and many modern liquid hand washes are detergent based and more effective cleaning. In fact detergents are often too effective in many cases, so not ideal for using on our skins. I think this is why people increasingly suffer from eczema and dry skin conditions. Detergents however have the edge over soaps in cleaning dishes, clothes and other household uses. They do not leave that white film and scum that soaps do. This is because soaps are typically higher pH than detergents (soaps typically pH 10, while detergents have been engineered to be neutral). Adding things like vinegar or anything too acidic into a soap can throw soaps out of solution if it drops the pH too low.

Sorry to put a spanner into your project.

 

[lsg]

You can try Swiftcraftymonkey's formula for basic shampoo. 10% Cocamidopropyl Betaine, 10% Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, & 15% Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate would make a good surfactant base, or just BSB makes a good base.

To 16 ounces of Swift's BASIC SHAMPOO recipe add the following:
1/4 tsp. cream of tartar
1/4 tsp. borax
1 Tablespoon White vinegar
2 tsp. sweet orange essential oil

Stir together the dry ingredients and then add the vinegar and e.o., blend well. Mix with 16 oz of the shampoo formula.


http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=basic+shampoo+recipe

 

[Mildreds.naturals]

Hi all,

Took me a while to get all ingredients together for %100 coconut oil dishwash.
Well, results are mixed.
Result seems to be a good liquid coastal oil.
But after trying it all day today.... I must say its not as effective on grease and mold as vinegar is.
So I'm back to my original question. ( plus I have some more now )

1. What foaming agent can be used in conjunction with %100 vinegar? ( so far I found it the most effective on fats and mold )
2. I have a butch of liquid %100 coconut soap. Can I mix it in with some other liquid soap to use it a general hand/body soap? (post mixing )
3. When I was making soap . As soon as I started mixing it... started to get very aggressive ( it was hot when I was mixing it )
Here are my steps:
water + koh then slow add oil and then slow heating. ( but when I wast trying to stir it while still hot ) it acted very aggressive .. Is that normal? Or I did something wrong. Also I used a wooden spoon...
4. KOH - health issues. Those seems to be a bit harsh... How do they effect health? My whole point in soap making is to get away from chemicals... but KOH seems to be so aggressive that it makes me wonder a my doing a good or rather a harm? By breathing and making a soap out of it...


So many off topic question please pardon me.

And thanks for all help

Eduard

First, let's talk lye. I know i've mentioned it before but if you mix hydrachloric acid with Sodium hydroxide (for bar soap) the result is... (drum roll)...

Table Salt

Soap is a salt of fatty acids so you are creating a whole new thing when you combine the oil and KOH. Saponified coconut oil for liquid soap would then be Potassium Cocoate (correct me if i'm wrong).

About Vinegar. I know i've also mentioned this before somewhere.. Vinegar is and acid, soap is a base. Mixing the two will create a disgusting mess. Detergents like Dawn, palmolive and laundry soap are NOT SOAP. that is why you can add vinegar to your wash without it getting gross . Vinegar is a great thing to add to whites and it helps kill mold spores in front loading laundry machines since they often stink :silent:

 

[lsg]

Our hard water doesn't work well for using liquid soap for hand dishwashing. I have come up with my own recipe using eco freindly surfactants. If anyone would like the recipe just pm me.