Deanna, I have a question...

[DeeAnna]

Cpacamper is right -- the bars are very hard and also last a long time. The soap is very mild just like a classic castile -- absolutely zero sign of any harshness or lye heaviness. I use mine in the shower with a pouf or washcloth and enjoy using the soap like this. I don't think I'd use the soap at the sink, because it needs a little more abrasion and aeration to make a nice lather.

 

[hmlove1218]

I've got my OO and water measured out (32 ounces of each), added my EOs (lavender orange YUM!), and letting my lye mix cool off. Getting ready to park myself on the couch in front of the TV and watch Criminal Minds episodes while I hand stir this soap I don't have a wooden spoon, so I'm just using my silicone spatula. I can't explain to others why I'm so excited over soap lol. At least everyone on this forum understands!!

 

[DeeAnna]

Keep us posted! Whether it goes smoothly or there are some bumps in the road, this is an interesting soap to make.

 

[hmlove1218]

You can bet I'm having problems lol. I thought it was at trace so I decided to check it with my stick blender..instant separation.. now I've been fighting with it trying to get it back together. DeeAnna, you said there was a water layer under your soap but you couldn't see it. There's a water layer completely surrounding mine.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep, I've gotten a water layer around the batter. The batter kind of slides around on the water like a skater on ice. Weird stuff.

Also, use a light hand with the stick blender -- you can break the emulsion by overdoing it with the stick blender. With regular soap, more SB'ing usually makes the batter better mixed, but not with this baby.

 

[hmlove1218]

Yeah I wasn't using it much at all. I figured out it only made it worse pretty quickly lol. I was using the blade to stir with for a while. After about an hour of that and no change, I started wondering if my measurements were off somehow. I started adding a little more OO to it because I remember reading where someone (probably you) stated that excess lye could actually be used to salt out the soap. I also started whisking it. First 2 oz there still wasn't any change after 10 minutes of whisking. Added 2 more and it started coming back together.

 

[DeeAnna]

Good save!

 

[newbie]

Mine is also very hard and not harsh at all. It doesn't seem to lather well with just basic handwashing; I think not enough soap dissolves off the bar to lather up, but with a bath poof, it lathers up just fine. It's not my favorite soap but it was undoubtedly the most interesting one I've ever made and you can do some interesting things with it. Design-wise, you do have to take into account the shrinkage you'll get from using the excess water. Some of my bars warped and others just got smaller. Can't figure out why some went one way and others, a different way.

 

[hmlove1218]

Finally got it in the mold after 4 hours

 

[DeeAnna]

Congrats! I bet you're tired. Welcome to the club!

It seems odd but this soap hardens up pretty fast at least for me, even the one that wept lots of lye water all over my oven. (I put my soap in the oven, even if I'm not CPOP'ing, to keep curious critters away from harm.) I know I'm probably saying the obvious, but I'm gonna be a Mother Hen and say it anyways -- please be careful and wear gloves when handling this soap at first!

 

[hmlove1218]

Oh most definitely I'm wearing gloves when handling this one! I ended up with a slight burn on my forearms because my gloves weren't long enough and I didn't think to wear long sleeves. This was probably the most messy soap I've ever made. I wound up with batter in places in my kitchen I can't even explain. This soap is so zappa that I felt it the instant my arm touched the raw batter.

Eta: about how long does it take for this soap to stop zapping? I noticed several people were testing it out at a month.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'd say 4 weeks is on the bare edge of being safe -- 6 to 8 weeks would be a more conservative time to wait. The exterior will become zap free fairly soon, but the center of the bars will remain zappy a bit longer.

I became a Connoisseur of Zap from weeks of testing this soap. I learned to take a light swipe over the soap with my fingertip and just barely touch my finger to my tongue. That was enough of a taste to figure out zap vs. no zap and the fine nuances in between. :wtf:

 

[hmlove1218]

Thanks DeeAnna! Can't wait to see how this turns out

 

[cmzaha]

The batch I tried last February with just full water did remain zappy which I was afraid would happen. It is obvious it takes the large amount of water to carry out the extra lye. Today I salted it out and am very curious to see how it is after it dries out.

 

[DeeAnna]

Hey, Carolyn, thank you for the update about the "normal water" superlye soap. That's a good point to know. From Kevin Dunn's experiments, I know a slightly lye heavy "normal" soap (-5% lye excess) will become lye neutral with cure. Your experience is showing a superlye but otherwise normal soap remains lye heavy. Our experiments here are showing a very lye heavy, high-water soap will become lye neutral with cure. Interesting......

This is giving me more incentive to do the experiments I spoke of in Post #481. Didn't get that started last year like I had intended. But I haven't forgotten about it either.

 

[MarlinFlake]

This is such an interesting and educational thread. I've really enjoyed reading it.

Here's my intuition on this soap, and since I'm not a chemist I'm hoping DeeAnna or another chemistry-proficient person can tell me if I'm right or wrong: If the soap has a 40% lye surplus, and it becomes more neutral over time because the lye forms sodium carbonate, then the final soap will be something like 60% sodium oleate and 40% sodium carbonate. This is why the soap is described as being hard, non-gooey, etc.--i.e. different from "normal" castile. This is not essentially different from making a soap with 60% olive oil and 40% coconut oil with 0% superfat, resulting in 60% sodium oleate and 40% sodium cocoate. (Obviously sodium carbonate and sodium cocoate are different, but my point is that the reason this soap is different from other castiles is the same reason why a 60/40 olive/coconut soap is also different from 100% olive oil castile.)

Is this basically correct?

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't think so.

Sodium carbonate can only be produced by the lye reacting with CO2 in the air. If there's no CO2 around, the lye can't react to form sodium carbonate. Soap isn't porous like a sponge, so gases like CO2 are not likely to penetrate into the soap. For that reason, I don't see how CO2 can migrate into the soap structure to react with lye there. IMO, the reaction of lye and CO2 to sodium carbonate is pretty much all on the surface of the soap only. That said, I have no way to test this hypothesis, so this is just my opinion, not fact.

The outside of the soap does show there is a lot of ash (sodium carbonate) that forms. But the total weight of surface ash produced isn't remotely close to the amount that would have to be created to reduce the excess alkalinity in this soap. The amount of excess lye present should make enough ash to make the soaps look as furry as my long-haired rough coat collie.

Normal castiles are very hard soaps -- not sure why you are thinking otherwise on that point. I have to say after some months of using this soap, I honestly don't think the superlye castile is a lot different than regular castile as far as the lather consistency and the gel that forms as the soap hydrates -- the gel is the stuff that people perceive as slimy. I hate to disappoint Anna Marie, but that's pretty much my opinion now.

 

[MarlinFlake]

Thanks for responding!

My description comes from what AnnaMarie wrote in the opening post: "I have an Andalusian recipe for castile soap that is lye heavy, but makes the BEST castile soap and does not get gooey. The bar is wonderful, long lasting, and hard. I know it's the amount of lye responsible because I have made plenty of castile soap since and even with the long cure times (couple years) they get gooey." I'm not trying to argue with you about the nature of castile; just answering your question about why I used the words "hard" and "non-gooey."

Now I'm wondering: If the lye isn't being used up in producing sodium carbonate, then where is it all going? Is that still a mystery?

 

[AnnaMarie]

. I hate to disappoint Anna Marie, but that's pretty much my opinion now.[/QUOTE]


Lol DeeAnna! It's okay if we don't agree. I'm not disappointed! I realize not everyone will have the same results or opinions. After my experiences with Castile I wondered if lye heaviness made a difference, and I thought you'd be a good person to tag in for the mystery. I still stand by my original opinion, but that's all it is- an opinion.

I haven't been on this thread for sometime, but thought I'd check in for fun. It's wild to see how long it's gotten

Best,
Anna Marie
- always up for more soapy experiments

 

[kumudini]

Need help!

Hi all,
Today I'm officially joining the crazy Castile club. Right now I need your help though. I am doing the full recipe, following it exactly. I hit light trace under 1 hr with just hand stirring. Now after 15 min it's definitely a medium trace. Should I stop now or keep stirring for a possible separation and coming back together as many of you seem to have experienced? My wrists want to thank you so badly,lol. I will update my process after moulding it up. Tia!