Deanna, I have a question...

[FlybyStardancer]

Just went to check on the olive/soy soap... And the colors have continued the morph. The green is now a poopy orange-brown, and the blue is now pink. Weird!

 

[soap_rat]

Anna Marie, I think that olive oil soap has a fairly high cured pH, above 10, so perhaps the phenolp. will always be bright? DeeAnna will know!

I've made this twice now, the first time was a crazy adventure and tonight was dreamy. Flyby, I did use a SB to start the batch tonight, but I started with a 50% lye solution. I just used it a couple of minutes then did the rest by hand. I think my experience was much like DeeAnna's second attempt. I will do a proper writeup soon, I have photos of my 1st mess (and of the delicious "mayonnaise" I made tonight).

 

[ilovesoap2]

Mine bombed..3 hrs and no trace..well so light that it disappears almost immediately.
One thing I did differently, I did not like the look of the 6oz lye and 3/4 cup water..it stayed white so I added an extra cup of water and then did the 4cups oil 3cups water. It looked totally emulsified but would not trace. I've checked it twice now and it looks super shiny on top so I think it will probably separate. bleh

 

[DeeAnna]

From what I can tell olive is mostly oleic acid with a modest dab of linoleic and palmitic acids. SoapRat has a good memory -- I would estimate the pH of a skin-safe castile will be in the 10-11 range, speaking roughly.

In a dilute solution, phenolphthalein (aka PhPh or phenol-p) is colorless below about 8.2, turns pink about 8.2, turns bright fuschia about 10, and above 12 will flush fuschia at first, then fade to colorless. If dropping PhPh solution on solid soap gives the same results as it does in a dilute solution (and for the record I am not convinced of that, but let's just assume it does), then the bright pink you're seeing is saying your soap pH is somewhere between 10-ish and 12-ish.

Does that mean it's skin safe or not? Dunno. If the pH is over 11, that's much too high for an oleic soap, but if it's under 11, it's probably good. Bear in mind that soda ash has a high pH, so any soda ash contamination will mess up the results. Either do the test on a freshly cleaned surface of the solid soap, if that's your preference, or do a pH test of a soap solution as a chemist would properly do it. From summerbeemeadow.com:

"...The proper way to use phenolphthalein is to dissolve some liquid or solid soap in a roughly 50:50 mix of distilled water and alcohol (ethyl or isopropyl rubbing alcohol is ok) in a clear glass. When the solution is as clear as it will get, add a drop or two of phenolphthalein solution and stir it. Then view it well-lit in front of a white background. This way, one can see the slightest little bit of pink color (which is ok) and all its graduations up to a deep red (definitely not ok)...."

However you choose to test, just be consistent with your method and practice often so you are quite familiar with how your chosen test works. Only with consistency and experience can you decide whether the results indicate a skin safe soap or not.

 

[seven]

notice that the original recipe mentioned to cure the soap for 2 weeks. i'm gonna go a bit further than that with 4 weeks and will start trying it on me. my skin is already pretty thick anyway, a lil lye burn i will survive

 

[DeeAnna]

I normally cure my soap about a month before serious use, so this soap will get the same treatment, although I've already been testing scraps to wash my hands. Maybe these bars will be skin safe in a month, maybe not. Another issue is development of lather with time as well. So far I can't say the lather from either of my batches is very good, but I do know that some of my normal soaps develop a nicer lather as time goes on.

 

[soap_rat]

DeeAnna, is the soap slimy? I recently tried a Bastille I made a year ago (or it might have been two!) and it's slimy!!! That's a big reason I'm interested in trying this recipe.

I had a paper open in another tab that mentioned the cured pH of different oil mixtures, but I didn't want to make an assertion about pH based on reading one whole table in a paper. I need to go back and check that thread in the Liquid soap forum, where someone was asserting (regarding HP soap) that high pH always means excess lye. (that's why I found that paper)

 

[AnnaMarie]

Lol! MzMolly, you are too funny! I don't know what the point of all the lye is myself which is why I brought this recipe to the forum :-D IMO this recipe made superior, non-gooey Castile soap and it comes from Spain, the birthplace of Castile soap, and from a local- all of which adds to its credibility for someone like me :-D. I just threw out a guess on cure time, but if Castile does have a higher ph then normal, well?????
Cheers!
Anna Marie
Ps- hope your foot is feeling and getting better!

Haha! You gals are all good sports! I'd do a lab with you all anytime :-D. There are no lame people here- that's for sure!
On the ph of Castile, that is news to me, but I did some checking, and yes, the ph of Castile is higher then average. I really think this soap will be all right in time. I may go get some unbleached parchment paper to wrap it in (I'm out anyway, and I need more for baking). I have to say that the only thing I've changed my mind on with this recipe is the SB, but I do think a five minute blend at the end gives it a nicer texture then unblended after seeing the results. So for me, hand stir until thick and then give it a few minutes with an SB. I, personally, think the recipe is best in its original form, so I won't be altering amounts at all. I also like the lather really well, and feel this is a really good mild soap (IMO). This recipe really appeals to my sense of preserving tradition- I tend to be old school
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[new12soap]

From what I can tell olive is mostly oleic acid with a modest dab of linoleic and palmitic acids. SoapRat has a good memory -- I would estimate the pH of a skin-safe castile will be in the 10-11 range, speaking roughly.

In a dilute solution, phenolphthalein (aka PhPh or phenol-p) is colorless below about 8.2, turns pink about 8.2, turns bright fuschia about 10, and above 12 will flush fuschia at first, then fade to colorless. If dropping PhPh solution on solid soap gives the same results as it does in a dilute solution (and for the record I am not convinced of that, but let's just assume it does), then the bright pink you're seeing is saying your soap pH is somewhere between 10-ish and 12-ish.

Does that mean it's skin safe or not? Dunno. If the pH is over 11, that's much too high for an oleic soap, but if it's under 11, it's probably good. Bear in mind that soda ash has a high pH, so any soda ash contamination will mess up the results. Either do the test on a freshly cleaned surface of the solid soap, if that's your preference, or do a pH test of a soap solution as a chemist would properly do it. From summerbeemeadow.com:

"...The proper way to use phenolphthalein is to dissolve some liquid or solid soap in a roughly 50:50 mix of distilled water and alcohol (ethyl or isopropyl rubbing alcohol is ok) in a clear glass. When the solution is as clear as it will get, add a drop or two of phenolphthalein solution and stir it. Then view it well-lit in front of a white background. This way, one can see the slightest little bit of pink color (which is ok) and all its graduations up to a deep red (definitely not ok)...."

However you choose to test, just be consistent with your method and practice often so you are quite familiar with how your chosen test works. Only with consistency and experience can you decide whether the results indicate a skin safe soap or not.

Thank you so much for pointing all of that out, including the proper way to use phenolphthalein.

Yes, a perfectly good safe mild soap can have a pH as high as 10.5, as shocking as that sounds!

And btw, phenolphthalein is toxic and can be absorbed through contact. Please discard any bars that are coated with it and use gloves and caution when handling it.

 

[ilovesoap2]

So for me, hand stir until thick and then give it a few minutes with an SB.
Cheers!
Anna Marie

When it got thick on me I was tempted to finish it off with the sb but was so worried it may separate at that point.

 

[ilovesoap2]

it didn't weep or drain anything and looks like it will set up.
What do you guys think?

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Well, the colors seem to be going back to blue and green. Thankfully. LOL It was really ugly when I checked it this morning--the colors somewhere between the two extremes they were last night.

 

[ilovesoap2]

This is just emulsified olive oile
Will I get soap from this thing..I hate wasting liquid gold!

 

[AnnaMarie]

I think it will set up fine. It looks like my hand stirred batch before I pulled out the SB. I pour a sample of that one and it set up just fine.
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[krunt]

Hi everyone,

I know you guys won't know me, as I've never posted here much, but I was intrigued with this recipe and have been eagerly following this thread.

It recently occurred to me that I'm not really happy with my soap (due to the gooey/slimey issue), but I didn't know what to do about it. I was actually going to try hp to see if that would make a difference. And then this thread popped up.

I haven't used olive oil in my soap for some time now, as I found the smell of unscented olive oil soap unpleasant. I have been using macadamia oil instead. But it also recently occurred to me that the smell is probably the unsaponified oil gone rancid. I never had that issue with the macadamia oil, so I continued using it in place of olive. But the soap would still get slimey.

So imagine my delight to read this thread and find a recipe for a 100% olive oil soap that does not get gooey! I am also assuming, although time will tell, that the soap will not get that funky smell, since there is no unsaponified oil left over.

I too have questioned the worth of superfat -- it's such a tiny amount of oil, could it really be making that much difference? And wouldn't it just get washed away by the soap itself when you use it, rather than being left on the skin?

Anyway, I don't have the answers, but I'm posting to say I have just finished giving this recipe a go. 100% olive oil, 40% excess lye, water equal to oil + lye. Everything went smoothly, and I got finished up a lot quicker than expected.

I used the "make a concentrated lye solution, add to oil and mix to trace, then add the rest of the water in stages, mixing to trace after each addition" method. I used the stick blender to get to trace after initially adding the lye water to the oil, but after that the stick blender isn't really needed. I found the soap batter maintained trace itself, and as I added each portion of water, all I needed to do was stir it into the batter. From the time I started stirring (using the stick blender) to the time I poured, it was around 35 minutes, however I was taking it slow. As I was expecting it to take over an hour, it was a nice surprise for it to take half that time.

The soap batter, at first trace, was around 42 degrees Celsius. After each addition of water had been stirred in, the temperature would drop by 2-3 degrees. At the time of molding, it was 29 degrees, and is maintaining that temperature. I have a cardboard box over the mold, with a towel over the box, so light insulation.

At the time of pouring, my soap had that plastic quality that has been spoken of in this thread. Poured right out without leaving any mess behind!

Well, I think that's about all I have to report, feel free to ask any questions if I've missed anything. Many thanks to AnnaMarie for starting this thread, and to everyone who has taken part and reported their experiences and thoughts! Oh, I used extra virgin olive oil. Now all that's left is to post a photo! I'll keep you guys updated on my soap.

 

[AnnaMarie]

Krunt,
Your soap looks awesome and so creamy! That was how mine looked when finished, and I love the pudding-like nature of the soap How interesting on your reverse sb and stir technique! It just goes to show how few absolutes there truly are in soap making I can't wait to see your finished product and how you like it. Thank you for joining the conversation.
Cheers!
Anna Marie

Just an update: my test bar has dropped 1.45 oz now- almost a 21% drop. As for the ph tested bar- the phenol on the fresh test bar of soap has become colorless, so I'm thinking that means it's definitely at 12 or more. However, on the 2 month cured test bar the phenol has stayed its same color, so I'm thinking it's definitely under 12 and in the safer range. I'm glad to know that castile has a higher ph, so I won't be expecting a clear result. Thank you all for the wonderful contributions and to our super scientist DeeAnna (take bow )
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[Lin]

How interesting on your reverse sb and stir technique!

Thats the technique that DeeAnna had suggested and then used successfully in her second batch of soap. I've been following it since thats the technique I'll be using to try the recipe since I am unable to hand stir to trace.

 

[seven]

Krunt, thanks for sharing your process and results. I'll def use the SB if time is limited. We are understanding more and more about this soap, and it's been fun so far.

Now to report on my soap.. I decided to test the tofu soap. It's nowhere ready. The inside is still drying up and it barely lathers. I also got a lil red and itchy, but nothing major. I'm gonna test the good one by next week.

 

[DeeAnna]

SoapRat: "...DeeAnna, is the soap slimy?..."

I played around with a larger scrap of each of my batches last night -- the first homely olive batch and the second pretty safflower-lard batch. Until last night, I hadn't been able to get the soaps to lather well. I was getting a scanty amount of lather and what there was of it looked more like lotion than suds. Last night I had better results -- DH was watching me and suggested adding a little more water to my hands as I rubbed. He was right. With that change, both soaps have a moderate amount of lather with a nice range of bubble sizes. The lather rinsed off well, and my hands didn't feel sticky right after washing. As my skin dried off, it felt fine -- not overly dried or itchy, but not sticky or lotion-y either.

I have never used a "normal" castile, so I have no idea how these soaps compare to a castile made with a regular CP process as far as slime vs. no slime. I'd say they are similar to my regular soaps. To give y'all a basis for comparison, my regular soaps generally have high conditioning and low cleansing numbers and moderate 5% superfat. I want my soaps to have a "neutral" skin feel -- what my skin felt before washing is pretty what it feels like after washing -- just nicely clean and refreshed without dirt or excess oil. The bubble-age is more on the creamy side with a scattering of larger bubbles, rather than super fluffy bubbles.

I haven't left them sit in water to see if they have a high "goo factor" or not. Seems unfair to do that without first letting them cure the same as my other soaps, since I know a cure period is helpful for this issue.

Krunt: "...I used the "make a concentrated lye solution, add to oil and mix to trace, then add the rest of the water in stages, mixing to trace after each addition" method. I used the stick blender to get to trace after initially adding the lye water to the oil, but after that the stick blender isn't really needed. I found the soap batter maintained trace itself, and as I added each portion of water, all I needed to do was stir it into the batter...."

That's what I did with my second safflower-lard batch. Isn't it just plain spooky how all that water so nicely blends into the emulsion??? Your soap looks nice. Bravo for joining the club!

 

[MzMolly65]

thats the technique I'll be using to try the recipe since I am unable to hand stir to trace.

Lin .. I don't know your entire physical situation but fwiw, it doesn't require constant stirring. I only stirred mine (couple of stirs around with the spatula) every 10 or so minutes and it was reaching light trace in about 20 minutes. I just let it sit for a full hour before pouring it just to be sure I had proper trace and not false. It really was quite easy and it poured like water, not thick like pudding.

I spent most of the hour on the couch, watching t.v. with my foot up!