Cutting basic soap

[JCM]

Hi all.

I am new to soap making. Made 2 batches of basic soap from a book I found. Tallow, lye, olive oil, cocoa butter. I followed the recipe with portions and temperatures. Let the soap sit for 3 days covered while away on a work trip. Tried cutting the soap into bars but it breaks into chunks under the knife. Is there something I’m doing wrong?

 

[akseattle]

@JCM I'm sorry your first batch didn't go as you had hoped.

I ordinarily cut after 24 hours. I think you may have waited to long so it is now too hard to cut cleaning and is breaking up.
The soap is still perfectly useable when it is done curing, it is just not going to be in the shape of a bar.

I've never waited too long. But, I suspect if you tried cutting it with a fine hack saw, you could slowly saw through it
If you don't have a hack saw laying around your garage, you can probably get one at the dollar store for $1.25.
.Hopefully, you made a small batch of 450g or 500g.

Let us know if you are able to get it cut.

Anyway, Welcome to this forum! Do not be discouraged by this little mishap, keep soaping!

 

[DeeAnna]

Your actual recipe would be a great help -- all ingredients, all in weights, not just a list of fats. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's a safe recipe nor even a good recipe. It's also wise to doublecheck any recipe using a soap recipe c@alculator.

The essential point is you need to cut the soap when it's ready to be cut, not go by time. That's especially true for recipes new to you and even more true when you're a new soap maker.

A soap rich in tallow tends to be brittle, so it will most likely need to be cut sooner rather than later. My article has in-depth info: https://classicbells.com/soap/cutting.asp

 

[JCM]

Your actual recipe would be a great help -- all ingredients, all in weights, not just a list of fats. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's a safe recipe nor even a good recipe. It's also wise to doublecheck any recipe using a soap recipe c@alculator.

The essential point is you need to cut the soap when it's ready to be cut, not go by time. That's especially true for recipes new to you and even more true when you're a new soap maker.

A soap rich in tallow tends to be brittle, so it will most likely need to be cut sooner rather than later. My article has in-depth info: https://classicbells.com/soap/cutting.asp

Hey. Thanks for the info. The recipe is 32 oz olive oil, 74 oz tallow, 3 oz cocoa butter, 14 oz lye and 41 oz of water. The book mentioned cutting soap at “firmness of Swiss cheese”. I think I am going to make another batch of this recipe next week unless there is a better basic recipe recommended

 

[akseattle]

@JCM , I just ran your recipe through soapcalc. It's below. I've never made a bar with as much tallow as you used, so I don't know how fast it would set and/ or how brittle it might be. However, your recipe had a good amount of water, so , that might give you a little more time before cutting.

When you cut, was it the consistency of cheddar cheese?
I know everyone says to cut when it's at the consistency of cheddar cheese. But, to be honest, I usually pull away at the side of the mold, if it's still sticking to the mold, then I know it's too soft. If it dents to the touch, that's too soft. If the sides pull away cleanly and its been at least 20 hours, then I usually try to unmold. Then when its in my hand, I go "yup, this is about like cheddar cheese! " Then I cut.

In terms of your recipe, can I ask why you decided on it? Do you have access to alot of tallow or did you like what you heard a tallow bar feels like?

Based on the soapcalc profile, You will have a nice hard, conditioning bar with good longevity. It will be creamy without a bubble in sight. I do like creamy bars, and I like having alot of tallow or lard, up to 49%, because of the hardness factor. Your cleansing number is a 5. That's pretty low. I don't usually pay much attention to that cleansing number since I never think of myself as being that dirty. But, I've heard you want a cleansing number of at least 12. Because I like bubbles and I don't like to break general rules I've heard, I would personally sacrifice a little of the hardness to increase the bubbles and cleansing just a little bit.

I would do that by replacing 10 oz of the tallow and use 10 oz of coconut oil (which should be pretty easy to find at any grocery store.) That still gives you a nice hard, creamy, conditioning bar but get your bubbles and cleansing up to 11.

If you want a few bubbles but want to stick to your recipe, you could add 2% sugar to your water and dissolving before mixing in your lye.

Recipes and what a person likes and doesn't like in a bar is very personal. So, without knowing more about why you chose this particular recipe, I won't make any other recipe suggestions.

I have two comments: One, unless I read your post wrong or did my math wrong, or have just spaced out, that's a humungus soap batch!!

With 2 exceptions, my first 25 batches (I've made 30 batches and still think of myself as a newer soapmaker). I made batches between 450 grams and 600 grams. So, mainly one pound loaves with a little left over to play with in cavity molds.

Comment two: I would agree with @DeeAnna and I would urge you to always run your recipes through soapcalc. I know someone else will probably address the lye/ water issue. I used water as a percentage of oil because that made it easier to try to duplicate your recipe. When you get a recipe from somewhere, its good to know what your lye concentration/ water as percentage of oil weight is. anyway, I do encourage you to run your recipes through soapcalc.

 

[Relle]

I would also suggest you make smaller batches, 3 kgs is a lot to throw away if it doesn't work. Try doing 1 kg and see how that works for you.

 

[JCM]

@JCM , I just ran your recipe through soapcalc. It's below. I've never made a bar with as much tallow as you used, so I don't know how fast it would set and/ or how brittle it might be. However, your recipe had a good amount of water, so , that might give you a little more time before cutting.

When you cut, was it the consistency of cheddar cheese?
I know everyone says to cut when it's at the consistency of cheddar cheese. But, to be honest, I usually pull away at the side of the mold, if it's still sticking to the mold, then I know it's too soft. If it dents to the touch, that's too soft. If the sides pull away cleanly and its been at least 20 hours, then I usually try to unmold. Then when its in my hand, I go "yup, this is about like cheddar cheese! " Then I cut.

In terms of your recipe, can I ask why you decided on it? Do you have access to alot of tallow or did you like what you heard a tallow bar feels like?

Based on the soapcalc profile, You will have a nice hard, conditioning bar with good longevity. It will be creamy without a bubble in sight. I do like creamy bars, and I like having alot of tallow or lard, up to 49%, because of the hardness factor. Your cleansing number is a 5. That's pretty low. I don't usually pay much attention to that cleansing number since I never think of myself as being that dirty. But, I've heard you want a cleansing number of at least 12. Because I like bubbles and I don't like to break general rules I've heard, I would personally sacrifice a little of the hardness to increase the bubbles and cleansing just a little bit.

I would do that by replacing 10 oz of the tallow and use 10 oz of coconut oil (which should be pretty easy to find at any grocery store.) That still gives you a nice hard, creamy, conditioning bar but get your bubbles and cleansing up to 11.

If you want a few bubbles but want to stick to your recipe, you could add 2% sugar to your water and dissolving before mixing in your lye.

Recipes and what a person likes and doesn't like in a bar is very personal. So, without knowing more about why you chose this particular recipe, I won't make any other recipe suggestions.

I have two comments: One, unless I read your post wrong or did my math wrong, or have just spaced out, that's a humungus soap batch!!

With 2 exceptions, my first 25 batches (I've made 30 batches and still think of myself as a newer soapmaker). I made batches between 450 grams and 600 grams. So, mainly one pound loaves with a little left over to play with in cavity molds.

Comment two: I would agree with @DeeAnna and I would urge you to always run your recipes through soapcalc. I know someone else will probably address the lye/ water issue. I used water as a percentage of oil because that made it easier to try to duplicate your recipe. When you get a recipe from somewhere, its good to know what your lye concentration/ water as percentage of oil weight is. anyway, I do encourage you to run your recipes through soapcalc.


View attachment 81351

I choose the recipe because it was the first one in the book. I will definitely start using the soap calculator. I do not have access to a lot of tallow. Definitely will start making smaller batches to fine tune. Also bought a weight scale in digital oz instead of analog in lbs and getting “close enough”.

I would also suggest you make smaller batches, 3 kgs is a lot to throw away if it doesn't work. Try doing 1 kg and see how that works for you.

Is there a better beginner recipe that you recommend for a basic soap? Preferably with tallow, since I have a stock?

 

[artemis]

Some of the calculators have recipes already there. When you open such a recipe, you can alter amounts or ingredients or batch size.

For example:
https://www.lyecalc.com/recipes

 

[Relle]

Is there a better beginner recipe that you recommend for a basic soap? Preferably with tallow, since I have a stock?

Sorry, I don't use tallow.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Try this thread, starting with this post, for a couple of recipes that use tallow. For future reference, I used the search bar with the words tallow, recipe and beginner.

 

[akseattle]

Try this thread, starting with this post, for a couple of recipes that use tallow. For future reference, I used the search bar with the words tallow, recipe and beginner.

I agree with @Mobjack Bay , the beginner recipe suggested by @AliOop on that thread is a great beginner recipe. After you make that a few times, and when you've read more about various oils, their properties, and what you do or don't want to change about the beginner recipe, you can decide if you want to tweak it, keep it, tweak it to use the coco butter you have, teak it to make it more exciting, or just try something different.
I put that recipe below in case you have link problems.

@AliOop said:
For an easier beginner recipe using some of the ingredients from that recipe, consider something like:

45% tallow
30% olive oil
20% coconut oil
5% castor

Keep us posted!! I can't wait to hear more about your soaping journey!!!!

 

[akseattle]

I do not have access to a lot of tallow.

@JCM , I misread your post. I thought you said you DO have access to alot of tallow. If you are out of tallow, for the recipe suggested by AliOop, you can switch LARD for tallow. Lard is available at any grocery store and is an extremely inexpensive oil. Lard is VERY SLOW MOVING. So, you will have plenty of time to do what you need to do. I use it for fragrance testing because I THINK that it discourages acceleration even with FO's (and I assume EO's) that want to accelerate.