Cracking cp goat soap

[Jtilley]

Hello,

We have had issues with partial gel phase no matter what we did so we started to force gel phase by putting our soap in the oven. This was recommended by a friend that also makes cp goats milk soap and forces gel phase.
First heated oven to 95 degrees (bread proofing setting) then shut off. Now the last couple batches have cracked.

50% olive oil
6.25% castor oil
28.75% coconut oil
15% shea butter
10.3 oz goats milk
4.6 oz lye


All liquids are 75-85 degrees when mixed.

2oz fragrance from brambleberry
2- teaspoons sodium lactate added to lye solution
Spray of alcohol on top

One of the first batches with this method got too hot when going through gel phase and the milk burnt.

Any thoughts?

 

[dmcgee5034]

I make GMS, and don’t gel. I put my loaf up on 2 cans (beans, corn) and if it’s a warm day or the loaf feels too warm, I have a fan blowing on it and rotate it once in a while. I had a loaf crack before I started this, and was able to smooch it together. I used to put my loaves in the fridge or freezer, but this “can & fan” process really works well for me.

Just a note on your recipe, I’d drop the castor down to 5% and the coconut down to under 20%, maybe you have another oil to pop in for the difference from those 2? Avocado or sweet almond come to mind, depending on what you have. I also hope you are using a calculator for your recipe (even if it’s on BBs site, best to run it through a calculator), and that you are using their fragrance calc for the specific FO you are using because not all FOs have the same usage rate.

 

[Relle]

I don't gel mine either and put it straight in the frig, not the freezer.

 

[Jtilley]

I make GMS, and don’t gel. I put my loaf up on 2 cans (beans, corn) and if it’s a warm day or the loaf feels too warm, I have a fan blowing on it and rotate it once in a while. I had a loaf crack before I started this, and was able to smooch it together. I used to put my loaves in the fridge or freezer, but this “can & fan” process really works well for me.

Just a note on your recipe, I’d drop the castor down to 5% and the coconut down to under 20%, maybe you have another oil to pop in for the difference from those 2? Avocado or sweet almond come to mind, depending on what you have. I also hope you are using a calculator for your recipe (even if it’s on BBs site, best to run it through a calculator), and that you are using their fragrance calc for the specific FO you are using because not all FOs have the same usage rate.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Curious about your thinking on why we should lower the castor oil and coconut oil to those percentages?

When we started we wanted to make a very simple GMS but as we correct for mostly cosmetic issues the recipe gets more complex and expensive.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

@Jtilley do you have goats? Is that why you’re using full GM for your lye solution? I started following through with the tip from @AliOop and began blending 1 tablespoon per pound of oils of dried goat milk powder into the oils for my GM soap, which gave me better results than using goat milk. I used to have goats and I love goat milk, but I found it a little fussy for me to work with in soap.

In general, I think your recipe looks fine. My personal preference is to keep coconut oil at or below 20% because it makes a milder soap, but as long as it’s below 1/3 of the recipe, it should be ok. If you decide to drop it down and want to keep the hard oil number up, you can try hydrogenated soy wax.

Wish I had a proof setting on my oven.

 

[Maple_Street_Bath]

Curious about your thinking on why we should lower the castor oil and coconut oil to those percentages?

Coconut oil gets a bit hot when saponifying, so lowering the CO % may help keep the soap temp cooler and avoid the cracking issue. Usually, cracks happen when the outside cools at a faster rate than the inside. Generally, there isn't an advantage to using Castor Oil at more than 5% - castor really doesn't bring separate properties to the soap party, it's just there to accent what the other oils do. (if that makes sense)

How are you combining the milk and lye? Is the milk frozen, or refrigerated, or at room temp? Using frozen or milk slushie mixture may help lower your temps enough that it doesn't crack during OP (oven process) so that it can get a consistent gel. I've always found it to be more consistent to use the split method - equal parts lye and water and add the liquid remainder as milk to the oils.

Other thought is what is the fragrance? Some fragrances cause heat - I've noticed this in strong clove/cinnamon type scents as well as some florals. If you're noticing the cracking in some soaps but not others and are following the same practices, it could be the fragrance contributing to it.

 

[Jtilley]

@Jtilley do you have goats? Is that why you’re using full GM for your lye solution? I started following through with the tip from @AliOop and began blending 1 tablespoon per pound of oils of dried goat milk powder into the oils for my GM soap, which gave me better results than using goat milk. I used to have goats and I love goat milk, but I found it a little fussy for me to work with in soap.

In general, I think your recipe looks fine. My personal preference is to keep coconut oil at or below 20% because it makes a milder soap, but as long as it’s below 1/3 of the recipe, it should be ok. If you decide to drop it down and want to keep the hard oil number up, you can try hydrogenated soy wax.

Wish I had a proof setting on my oven.

Yes we do have goats which is why we are using the milk.

Attached is what the calculator says about our soap. Everything looks decent to me, beginner, aside for the longevity.
Batches have been improving since we started but things still pop up like the cracks and orange spots when I cut this most recent batch. I’ll look into the soy wax.
Thanks

 

[Jtilley]

Coconut oil gets a bit hot when saponifying, so lowering the CO % may help keep the soap temp cooler and avoid the cracking issue. Usually, cracks happen when the outside cools at a faster rate than the inside. Generally, there isn't an advantage to using Castor Oil at more than 5% - castor really doesn't bring separate properties to the soap party, it's just there to accent what the other oils do. (if that makes sense)

How are you combining the milk and lye? Is the milk frozen, or refrigerated, or at room temp? Using frozen or milk slushie mixture may help lower your temps enough that it doesn't crack during OP (oven process) so that it can get a consistent gel. I've always found it to be more consistent to use the split method - equal parts lye and water and add the liquid remainder as milk to the oils.

Other thought is what is the fragrance? Some fragrances cause heat - I've noticed this in strong clove/cinnamon type scents as well as some florals. If you're noticing the cracking in some soaps but not others and are following the same practices, it could be the fragrance contributing to it.

Thanks for the info!
That makes sense to lower those oil percentages. The cracking this time around wasn’t much. I Just have to decide what to replace it with.
Making a good bar is turning out to be fairly complicated.

It has happened with a few fragrances and an unscented batch. I currently have fragrances from BB that are supposed to behave well.

I mix the lye with frozen goat’s milk. This most recent batch temp for the lye mixture was around 75-80 degrees.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Curious about your thinking on why we should lower the castor oil and coconut oil to those percentages?

When we started we wanted to make a very simple GMS but as we correct for mostly cosmetic issues the recipe gets more complex and expensive.

Sorry I didn’t put my ‘why’ in my reply in the oils percentage, and so glad @Maple_Street_Bath chimed in. I also worry coconut at a higher usage will be drying. I prefer my cleansing number to be pretty low, because it’s soap and it’s still going to get you clean. My cleansing number for my recipe is 12, as an example.

Pretty swirls on that green soap