CP vs. HP

[Crazy8]

I have been in much debate on if I want to do my first small (2 pounds of less) batch of shaving soap using the CP or HP method. As I have mentiond in another post, I have a 1/2oz sample of wonderful smelling FO "Shave & A Haircut". I have done some reading and it seems that the scent can be lost quite a bit in CP. Another plus is that HP soap can be used right away after its cooled down and if I don't have to wait 6 weeks to try it, well that would be awesome.

So my question here is if you have or found a recipe that perhaps was done using the CP method can you just transition it over to HP and do it that way if you'd prefer?

Not sure if it matters or not to know the recipe in order to decide if it has to be CP or HP, but here is the recipe Im going to use. Its a shaving soap.

13 oz Olive oil
10 oz Coconut oil
7 oz Palm oil
2.5 oz Castor oil
4.7 oz Lye (about a 5% discount)
9.4 oz water
2 Tbsp of Bentonite Clay
1 to 1.4 oz. of fragrance or essential oil

 

[Nightlilly]

I'm not an expert but I have read quite a few times than any CP recipe can be done HP. If it weren't for how intricate a design you can get with CP, I would probably do all HP soaps. My main problem with HP is the outside layer's texture. My tops are never as smooth and creamy looking as CP because it begins to harden quickly and forms a crust almost.

I think I read that you want to use a PVC mold for your shaving soaps....you'll have to work quickly to mold it once you remove it from the heat and make sure you tamp it down REALLY well so that you don't get pockets of air along the sides of the mold. It's going to be gelatinous and not smooth pouring like CP so it won't fill all of the space in the mold on it own.

 

[Crazy8]

I'm not an expert but I have read quite a few times than any CP recipe can be done HP. If it weren't for how intricate a design you can get with CP, I would probably do all HP soaps. My main problem with HP is the outside layer's texture. My tops are never as smooth and creamy looking as CP because it begins to harden quickly and forms a crust almost.

I think I read that you want to use a PVC mold for your shaving soaps....you'll have to work quickly to mold it once you remove it from the heat and make sure you tamp it down REALLY well so that you don't get pockets of air along the sides of the mold. It's going to be gelatinous and not smooth pouring like CP so it won't fill all of the space in the mold on it own.

Thank you very much for the advice. Ill be sure I have everything ready and prepped before I get to carried away when I make this so that I can work fast. I also wont be doing anything intricate with the shaving soap, not even color so it will be just the oils/fats and fragrance. I read on BB's site that this FO can accelerate trace and it has a 196 degree flashpoint. But you usually don't add FO until after the soap has cooked correct?

 

[Sapwn]

HP or CP does not change much.

You problem is your recipe according to my opinion.

Check out the shaving soap threads on the forum, there is plenty of information there.

 

[sistrum]

Yes, you can do that recipe HP or CP and you usually add your FO after the cook.

 

[savonierre]

I agree that your recipe could be changed up , tallow is awesome in shaving soap, i would switch that for the OO.

 

[Crazy8]

I agree that your recipe could be changed up , tallow is awesome in shaving soap, i would switch that for the OO.

I would love to do tallow. Wonder where I could find some locally so I dont have to wait for another order to show up at my door?

 

[Obsidian]

Its real easy to render your own tallow, just takes a bit of time. Most grocery stores will have ground beef suet, I got 2 lbs tallow from 3 pounds suet.

 

[Crazy8]

Its real easy to render your own tallow, just takes a bit of time. Most grocery stores will have ground beef suet, I got 2 lbs tallow from 3 pounds suet.

What exactly is suet? Could I also walk into most butcher shops and ask for beef tallow or maybe I would need to ask for beef fat? I would not be opposed to making my own tallow.

 

[DeeAnna]

Shaving soap is not just a regular type of soap with clay added. All the serious straight razor shavers and every person who makes shaving soap for said shaving guys will want much, much higher amounts of stearic acid than what your recipe has in it. I second what Sapwn and Savonierre have already said -- research shaving soap threads on this forum and elsewhere. The information will be invaluable if you want to make a shaving soap with the dense, long lasting lather that is needed for an incredibly close shave without irritation.

 

[Obsidian]

Suet is ground/chopped beef fat. Tallow is suet that has been cooked down to get all the impurities out. http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/soapmakingoils/ss/rendertallow.htm

 

[Nightlilly]

If you're only adding fragrance to your HP, just make sure that your soap batter has cooled to below the flash point of your fragrance before you add it. I know a lot of people use infrared thermometers but if you have a stick thermometer I would use that and give it a good swirl through the soap before reading. I worry that with an infrared, the HP batter's surface cools a lot faster than the center, I may be wrong.

 

[Crazy8]

If you're only adding fragrance to your HP, just make sure that your soap batter has cooled to below the flash point of your fragrance before you add it. I know a lot of people use infrared thermometers but if you have a stick thermometer I would use that and give it a good swirl through the soap before reading. I worry that with an infrared, the HP batter's surface cools a lot faster than the center, I may be wrong.

Thanks for the heads up. I do remember reading that somewhere though. I think the flash point on this FO was 191 degrees. I will be sure to look at that again and confirm. Yeah I have seen many people use IR thermometers and I feel about the same way. They are hand and cool but I feel like you are checking the temp of the surface and not much deeper than that.

 

[Crazy8]

Guess what I got 3 pounds of and have been rendering for about an hour now?
Ill bet you will never guess?

I agree that your recipe could be changed up , tallow is awesome in shaving soap, i would switch that for the OO.

Ounce for ounce? Also, as far as taking a recipe and halving or quartering or whatevering it...lol when you run it through the soap calc, what exactly am I looking for? To make sure those numbers match up to be about the same as my math? I did do this once and my lye and water was quite high compared to soapcalc but I was told that the numbers I had were fine.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Soap Making mobile app

 

[Paintguru]

Shaving soap is not just a regular type of soap with clay added. All the serious straight razor shavers and every person who makes shaving soap for said shaving guys will want much, much higher amounts of stearic acid than what your recipe has in it. I second what Sapwn and Savonierre have already said -- research shaving soap threads on this forum and elsewhere. The information will be invaluable if you want to make a shaving soap with the dense, long lasting lather that is needed for an incredibly close shave without irritation.

Agreed, the initial recipe almost sounds like a typical body bar soap, not a shaving soap.

 

[Crazy8]

Well I will keep doing some research on this. But with everything I am throwing at soapcalc with recipes I am finding online and with ingredients I have or have access to, I cant seem to get the stearic past 12.

 

[Crazy8]

Thought I would give an update on this part. 5 hours and 30.7oz later. Not bad from 3 pounds of material to work with.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Soap Making mobile app

 

[Crazy8]

Here is a recipe I was able to find in here. I also plugged it into soap calc. Not sure if a 16 stearic is high. Im assuming not. Should a shaving soap/cream always be done using stearic acid then?

Here is the recipe...
40% beef tallow, 24% castor oil, 22% cocoa butter, 5% coconut oil, and 5% olive oil, and 4% avocado oil.
Water 6.08oz (from soapcalc)
Lye 2.23oz (from soapcalc)

Here is the the print out from soap calc.

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 42
Cleansing 12 - 22 7
Conditioning 44 - 69 55
Bubbly 14 - 46 28
Creamy 16 - 48 57
Iodine 41 - 70 55
INS 136 - 165 138
Lauric 3
Myristic 3
Palmitic 19
Stearic 16
Ricinoleic 22
Oleic 29
Linoleic 4
Linolenic 0


Well that's probably enough posts for one night.

 

[dimitris]

16 for stearic is way too low. You basically need to add stearic acid to increase the lather stability and thickness. In my experience, stearic needs to be at least 55 to work.

 

[Crazy8]

16 for stearic is way too low. You basically need to add stearic acid to increase the lather stability and thickness. In my experience, stearic needs to be at least 55 to work.

Is this something you can walk in and get somewhere or is this an order online thing to get stearic acid?