CP soap without palm oil

[Romane]

I would like to avoid palm oil in my soaps for ecological reasons, but I find it hard to replace. I've tried avocado oil and lard, but don't get a very firm bar. Any ideas?

 

[IrishLass]

Do you have any access to beef tallow? I think you'll have better success if you add some of that to your lard/avocado facsimile, as tallow is harder than lard.


IrishLass

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Or just straight lard with no avocado?

 

[Susie]

Lard yields a very firm bar if you use a high enough percentage to offset any liquid oils. You could also add a bit of Coconut Oil if need be.

 

[not_ally]

That's strange, Romane. I use mostly lard, too (b/w 60 and 70% usually) with some combination of CO/OO or avocado and a bit of castor. The bars are pretty hard after curing. How much lard are you using, and are you curing them for as long as your other soaps?

 

[AlanPull]

In UK, we have no problem buying 100% RSPO Certified Segregated Sustainable palm and palm kernel oils. These are not only innocent of de-afforestation, but usually are certified as Orangatan friendly, and cost about the same as the non-sustainable brands. They can be used to make Vegan acceptable soaps.

 

[Cindy2428]

As long as you are willing to wait - 6 months or better, using 60%+ of olive oil will get you a nice hard bar. My first year I did not use palm at all, and tried all sorts of combinations. My 50+ skin does not tolerate a high cleansing factor so I limit my coconut oil to 8% or less.

Using beeswax or myrisitc acid, (recommend HP only) will also aid in hardening, but can be a PIA to use.

When I was first researching soap almost 3 yrs ago??!! - time does seem to fly, doesn't it... I made some "rules" about my recipes - no palm for the orangutans, and no lard or tallow.... I'm definitely not vegan, but could not imagine washing my face with bacon! Well, with continued learning comes further wisdom and some of my best soap uses about 40% lard, and my base vegan recipe uses sustainable palm oil.

For me, palm brings so much to the table that when I compare those soaps to the 30+ batches made w/out in that first year; except for my journal entry and a picture, I threw them all away they were so bad, even after a yr+ cure.

Absolutely, you have to soap with your heart; love is the unwritten ingredient in all of our soap, but don't cut off your options either. Hope you find your magical soap recipe!

 

[DeeAnna]

Also if you're soaping with "full water" (about 28% lye concentration), that could be as much your problem as the fats you're using in your recipe. You might try a higher lye concentration -- say 30% to 33%. That can help a lot with the softness.

 

[Dorymae]

In UK, we have no problem buying 100% RSPO Certified Segregated Sustainable palm and palm kernel oils. These are not only innocent of de-afforestation, but usually are certified as Orangatan friendly, and cost about the same as the non-sustainable brands. They can be used to make Vegan acceptable soaps.

RSPO unfortunately allows 5 years for a plantation to comply during which time they may claim the certified sustainable label. The company (rspo) has had trouble with inspections as well. There is a lot about this problem on the internet if you look for it. Especially on sites trying to save the orangutans.

 

[Romane]

My recipe was:

50% lard (in fact, it was wild boar fat, as my friend breeds boars and gives me the fat)
23% coconut oil
23% olive oil
4% castor.

Soaps were hard (INS 157), but after a while using them, they became all «glue glue» and very soft in the soap dish. Maybe I didn't let them cure long enough (just a month).

Or may be wild boar fat is softer than pig fat? I've try to find the SAP value of wild boar fat , but couldn't.

 

[not_ally]

There does seem to be some variation in SAP values in animal fats, not sure if it is enough to make a difference. Here's a link to a SAP value table with some pretty crazy oils that I have never seen before. Do not see wild boar, but there are a bunch of other animal fats and it is really kind of cool just to peruse all the different oils just for fun.

Yet another sentence I could not have imagined in my pre-soaping life.

http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Soap/Saponification_Chart.html

ETA: Ooh, clicked on a link on that page, it is a little scary, prepare-for-the-coming-apocalypse stuff. Still a great chart, though.

 

[newbie]

It's difficult to imagine that recipe being soft. Does your soap dish drain well? CP soap does not tolerate staying wet at all and has to dry out between uses. At 1 month, the soap itself should be hard but if you leave it in any water, it will indeed be gloppy.

What is your SF? Anything reasonable should result in a hard bar but thought I'd ask.

 

[Obsidian]

All handmade soap will turn into glue if it can't drain properly. The plastic built in shelves in most showers simply do not drain enough. I use a stainless steel shower caddy. The soaps can drain proper and they are exposed to air on all sides.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...after a while using them, they became all «glue glue» and very soft in the soap dish..."

The recipe, cure time, etc. all seem reasonable. What you're describing is a soap that is not able to dry between uses. The most carefully made soap, whether it is handcrafted or commercial, will turn into gluey mush if allowed to remain wet.

 

[Spice]

When I started soaping I was taught to make soap without palm oil. I guess the person had a thing for the rain forest and all. I stuck with it, so my recipe is:
CO 36%
OO 30%
Castor 12%
Soybean 10%
Almond & Grapeseed oils both at 6%

I was told that the high CO % would be to drying, I havent had that, I SF at 5%, maybe that has something to do with it. My bars are hard and they feel good. If they didnt I would have heard about it by now. I've been soaping for a couple of years with this recipe. Still learning and I have tons of questions.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto the info about handmade soaps not tolerating prolonged moisture and turning gluey/mushy if not allowed to dry on a well-draining soap dish between uses. Even if they are as hard as steel when dry, prolonged wetness/dampness is their kryptonite.


IrishLass

 

[dillsandwitch]

There does seem to be some variation in SAP values in animal fats, not sure if it is enough to make a difference. Here's a link to a SAP value table with some pretty crazy oils that I have never seen before. Do not see wild boar, but there are a bunch of other animal fats and it is really kind of cool just to peruse all the different oils just for fun.

Yet another sentence I could not have imagined in my pre-soaping life.

http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Soap/Saponification_Chart.html

ETA: Ooh, clicked on a link on that page, it is a little scary, prepare-for-the-coming-apocalypse stuff. Still a great chart, though.

awww now I wanna read that book just for the laugh factor alone. Too bad there isnt an epub version of it around.

 

[MorpheusPA]

awww now I wanna read that book just for the laugh factor alone. Too bad there isnt an epub version of it around.

Where do they expect to get pure lye post a major and long-lasting disaster?

 

[not_ally]

I think I would hate to always be in fear of something like that. Heck, I live in LA, pretty much on one of the fault lines, and I figure if the big one hits and I am still around afterwards maybe lots of people will move, it will make traffic better and houses more affordable JK, sort of.

 

[jenneelk]

I think I would hate to always be in fear of something like that. Heck, I live in LA, pretty much on one of the fault lines, and I figure if the big one hits and I am still around afterwards maybe lots of people will move, it will make traffic better and houses more affordable JK, sort of.

That's how we feel about the drought.. Know several moving and people talking about it. Maybe I can finally get beach property at an affordable price! And right when they move the rains will come as they always have.