CP Shave soap - soy wax

[blue54899]

Hello,

I have been trying to create a CP shave soap and have made some progress, but am looking for some help. I was previously using stearic acid, but my batter would seize immediately when I would add my lye. I switched to soy wax to prevent that issue (which worked, I am able to make this CP) but my soap is feels a little drying, and the lacker isn't as thick as I would like. Any advice?

My recipe:

Soy wax 50%
Kokum butter 15%
Cocoa butter 10%
Coconut oil 10%
Castor oil 10%
Shea butter 5%

How can I adjust this so that I can increase the rich and creaminess of the lather and make it feel more conditioning.

I tried this recently:

Soy wax 40%
Kokum butter 15%
Stearic acid 10%
Mango butter 10%
Coconut oil 10%
Castor oil 10%
Shea butter 5%

French green clay 15 grams

But this recipe seized too quickly so it will not work for me.

Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I will have a look at my recipe tonight after work and post a reply for you. Do you use dual lye?

 

[KiwiMoose]

Here you go:

I use aloe as the water content.

 

[Ekuzo]

@KiwiMoose how stable is your lather with 45% soy wax?

 

[AliOop]

@blue54899 regarding the conditioning, what is your superfat? You may need to increase that.

Regarding the process, what is your lye concentration, aka water:lye ratio? And is there a reason you are choosing CP, rather than HP? I recommend HP at 25% lye concentration, and perhaps even lower if you still don't have enough working time. Be sure you aren't using the water-as-percent-of-oils setting as that's going to be more difficult to scale the water up and down, especially if you change batch sizes.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose how stable is your lather with 45% soy wax?

Compared to an HP shave soap made with stearic acid, or compared to my regular soap? It's less stable than the former, and more stable than the latter.

 

[Ekuzo]

Compared to an HP shave soap made with stearic acid, or compared to my regular soap? It's less stable than the former, and more stable than the latter.

As a shaving soap in general. I thought SW should be around 55‐60% in shaving soaps to provide enough stearic for a good creamy lather. But I get it why it's less in your recipe - you are trying to balance everything for a CP soap which is good for shaving while still being workable and doesn't set that fast, which is kind of difficult - hence the lower SW %, I understand now

 

[blue54899]

@blue54899 regarding the conditioning, what is your superfat? You may need to increase that.

Regarding the process, what is your lye concentration, aka water:lye ratio? And is there a reason you are choosing CP, rather than HP? I recommend HP at 25% lye concentration, and perhaps even lower if you still don't have enough working time. Be sure you aren't using the water-as-percent-of-oils setting as that's going to be more difficult to scale the water up and down, especially if you change batch sizes.

My lye concentration is 2.5:1 water to lye ratio. The main reason I am using CP is because I want my soap to look aesthetically pleasing and to be able to design with it. Everytime I use stearic acid or HP the batter becomes thick and almost impossible to mold. And the final product doesn't look very nice. Any advice there?

 

[blue54899]

Here you go:
View attachment 78499
View attachment 78500View attachment 78500
I use aloe as the water content.

Thank you so much for this - I will try this and let you know how it turns out. 3 questions:

1. Does the liquid to lye ratio need to be 1.63:1? Can it be 2.5?
2. I noticed an 80% NaOh / KOH ratio - is there a reason for this? I usually see 60 / 40 for solubility purposes.
3. Is there another fat I could replace rice bran oil with?

Thanks!

 

[KiwiMoose]

As a shaving soap in general. I thought SW should be around 55‐60% in shaving soaps to provide enough stearic for a good creamy lather. But I get it why it's less in your recipe - you are trying to balance everything for a CP soap which is good for shaving while still being workable and doesn't set that fast, which is kind of difficult - hence the lower SW %, I understand now

I was surprised to discover when I sent it out for testing that a lot of men don't give two diggedies about how thick their lather is. They either use a bought can of shave foam, or use regular bathroom soap when shaving. There are a few 'wet shaving aficionados' who buy a proper shave soap, which they lather up with a brush - and I would bet that they find my shave soap sorely disappointing.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thank you so much for this - I will try this and let you know how it turns out. 3 questions:

1. Does the liquid to lye ratio need to be 1.63:1? Can it be 2.5?
2. I noticed an 80% NaOh / KOH ratio - is there a reason for this? I usually see 60 / 40 for solubility purposes.
3. Is there another fat I could replace rice bran oil with?

Thanks!

I would probably use extra avocado oil to replace the RBO - but it's very expensive. The reason I use the RBO is because it's relatively high on palmitic and low on oleic - and it's super cheap here. I think avocado is similar in its fatty acid profile from memory. Of course - recalculate your lye if changing the ingredients.
Try using your regular ratios for water and lye and for sodium/potassium hydroxide and see how you go. The last batch I made with that recipe was very pourable, so I personally wouldn't change it for me - but you may wish to.
ETA - Can you get cottonseed oil? That looks like it might be good, but I wouldn't
use it over 10% due to high linoleic value.

 

[Ekuzo]

I was surprised to discover when I sent it out for testing that a lot of men don't give two diggedies about how thick their lather is. They either use a bought can of shave foam, or use regular bathroom soap when shaving. There are a few 'wet shaving aficionados' who buy a proper shave soap, which they lather up with a brush - and I would bet that they find my shave soap sorely disappointing.

I guess I would be one of those "wet shaving aficionados" lol

Using canned shave foam and bath soap for shaving - been there, done that. Not anymore, after my skin felt the difference

 

[blue54899]

I guess I would be one of those "wet shaving aficionados" lol

Using canned shave foam and bath soap for shaving - been there, done that. Not anymore, after my skin felt the difference

Any advice on CP a shave soap that would get a thick, creamy lather?

 

[Ekuzo]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-first-shaving-soap-is-a-success.34264/

Definitely check this thread out. I know it's huge, but you will get lots of useful information there.

The consensus is that you either make HP with stearic acid, or you CP with enough soy wax to get a similar stearic content. And if some (maybe most or even all) of your lye is KOH, you will get lots of lather without much effort, as it will make the soap more easily soluble.

The HP is to make sure the batter is workable, because with stearic acid that high your batch will seize if CP. I don't do HP and I'm yet to make shaving soap, so I can't talk from experience - I was thinking of adding 60% SW and CP, hoping that I have enough time to pour it in single cavity molds. So far I've made soap with up to 30% SW with no issue, but doubling the stearic content will be a different beast. You can try KiwiMoose's recipe which calls for 45% SW - at least you know it's tried and it works, it would be a good starting point and you can always tweak it later to your liking. Or try something among the recipes in the huge thread, I'm sure there were good suggestions for SW shaving soap which people like.

Seriously, take the time to read the thread, it's a gem for those who want to make shaving soap at some point, you won't regret it

 

[AliOop]

@blue54899 If you are open to buying a book, this one is a fantastic resource. I've tried a few of her recipes, and all have been good.

For a free recipe, here is one that dupes the famous Martin de Candre shaving soap.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Any advice on CP a shave soap that would get a thick, creamy lather?

Any with high stearic - but there-in lies your issue. High stearic are better hot processed. My shave soap is pretty good for a CP, but will never be as good as an HP with more stearic.

 

[Iluminameluna]

I know I'm late to this party but I made a CP shave soap that went through several iterations until this version:
Recipe created by Iluminameluna https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/recipes/61204.shave-soap-no-1
I made it for my #1 son, the one w/ oily skin, but who also easily breaks out w/ irritated bumps if he doesn't use the right "stuff" on his face. So he asked for shaving soap bc he was spending a bit on the commercial ones.
I made a batch of 24 - 3.5 oz pucks just over 3 yrs ago. He apparently sold a few to those w/ whom he shared, but he's hoarding the last 8 or so, until I can go back to San Antonio & make more.
He says they didn't dissolve in their dish, even in the city's humidity; the lather doesn't "break" for as long as he's spreading it & shaving, usually 20 - 25 mins; & finally, It's NOT irritating or drying & doesn't matter what he uses afterwards, there's no residue.
His friends, one of them a female who used it to shave other parts, not facial areas, say it's the best shave soap they've tried for the same reasons, but especially for the "real" wet shavers that use straight & safety razors: they like that it doesn't dull their blades in one go like some of the soaps they buy.
Their only critique of my soaps is the lack of scent choice. I don't scent my shave soaps at ALL. Not bc I don't necessarily want to, but can't afford to. I'm not a commercial-purpose maker, I make these @ my family's request, MAYBE for a friend w/ MY specifically stating that I WON'T use a scent bc I don't want to be responsible for a bad reaction.
Caveat Emptor.
I hope this adds something helpful to the discussion.