conditioning bars hot process

[JCsuds]

I infused 2 oz chamomile blossoms in the oils except the shea butter (I will be adding that in the end ) I am planning on using flat beer for the liquid /lye solution
I basically made up this recipe according to what I had to work with, and what understanding I have gained from this forum and the books I have about the properties of the oils . I understand this will not be very cleansing more a conditioning bar . My 2 girls and wife have dry tangle hair. If anyone sees any obvious flaws with the recipe please feel free to tell me before I make this batch (hot process ) today
also how much fragrance would 766.74 g of soap need? planning on rosemary and mint EO is there some standard measure of OE and fragrance oils ? Thanks James
Yiriahs conditioner bars
A SOLID soap, measured in GRAMS
superfatted by 10%
1tsp sugar to boost lather
Avocado Oil 440.00g
Castor Oil 120.00g
Olive Oil 600.00g
Shea Butter (Unrefined) 120.00g
Sunflower Seed Oil 300.00g
10% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount
189.612g Ounces of liquid recommended 521.40g
Yields 766.74g

 

[Obsidian]

I'm confused about your recipe, when I put it into soap cal, the total oils come up to 1,580 grams, not the 766.74 grams you wrote above.
I'm also confused about the 10% lye amount. When writing out a recipe, please include the lye and water in grams, not percentages.

It should look like this

Avocado 440 gram
castor 120 gram
olive 600 gram
shea 120 gram
sunflower 300 gram

Water 600 grams
lye 189.70 grams

This is a shampoo bar right? If so, you want the superfat to be around 3% or it will leave the hair sticky. For a batch this size, you would use 48.98 grams scent

Personally, I would make a smaller batch when making a new recipe.

 

[JCsuds]

Amount %
Avocado Oil 440.00g 27.85%
Castor Oil 120.00g 7.59%
Olive Oil 600.00g 37.97%
Shea Butter (Unrefined) 120.00g 7.59%
Sunflower Seed Oil 300.00g 18.99%
6% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount 198.039g
Grams of liquid recommended 521.40g
Yields 2299.44g
this is run through brambleberry calculatorat 6%. This was recipe based on the link you sent me about Gennys shampoo bar she did it at 6% I was superfatting it high because cavitch does everything at 10%.... Thanks for your input I am not sure why the yeild is different again??? but this should fit in two pans . I live with 40 people this will all be gone in a couple of weeks or so .

 

[Obsidian]

That looks much better. I normally SF my soaps at 10% but like I said, with shampoo bars you don't want a bunch of excess oils in your hair. I also have very dry, damaged hair and even 6% SF make my hair gunky. I do have very fine hair though, if your wife has courser hair the 6% will probably be just fine.

 

[shunt2011]

Also be prepared that they may not be able to use shampoo bars. I've tried several and my hair hates them. They make my hair feel terrible and my haircolor fade way too fast. Even with an ACV rinse. Some people love them some just can't use them. They make great conditioning body bars though.

 

[Susie]

I use lard in my shampoo bars, also. So, if you wanted to use tallow, shampoo bars would not be hurt by it. I would not use any colorants in the shampoo bars, though. People with grey or blonde hair might end up with an undesired color change. It happened to me.

Just out of curiosity, why HP? It will not save you cure time. And you will need to use less EO for HP than CP. This seems an unnecessary complication for a new soaper.

You do remember that you need that soap to cure for 4-6 weeks minimum, right?

 

[JCsuds]

I use lard in my shampoo bars, also. So, if you wanted to use tallow, shampoo bars would not be hurt by it. I would not use any colorants in the shampoo bars, though. People with grey or blonde hair might end up with an undesired color change. It happened to me.

Just out of curiosity, why HP? It will not save you cure time. And you will need to use less EO for HP than CP. This seems an unnecessary complication for a new soaper.

You do remember that you need that soap to cure for 4-6 weeks minimum, right?

Now I am really confused :shock: I am under the thought pattern you can use hot process products days after you make them. that the ph is neutralized by the end of the cooking process . I know they improve and last longer after dehydration /curing but we should be able to use it tomorrow . I would like to try it before making the next batch and not wait a month and a half . I will be testing this with phenolphthalein 1% to ensure it is ready and safe . Would it be ok to color the soap with spiralina ? anyone have experience with using it in shampoo? Also I do not really have anything very cleansing in this bar it is more a conditioning bar for all the straw heads ...
I need tallow cleansing shampoo bar for my greasy head of falling out hair .... I got short fat bald disease when I turned 30...18 yrs ago Thanks for the input James

 

[Susie]

The whole "HP is safe to use after gel" is one we get all the time. It may be safe, but it will not be good. You still need time for that bar to lose water and time makes them milder and more conditioning. You can no more judge the quality of that shampoo bar after a couple of days than you could judge vegetables in a garden the day the seeds sprout.

I would not use any colorants in shampoo bars, as color can and will change the hair color. Not all, mind you, but do you want to take the chance?

Why are you using phenolpthalien? You can zap test it to know if it is safe. Zap test is the only true safe/not safe determination for soap.

 

[Seawolfe]

Beer is "safe" to drink after fermentation, but it tastes nasty. Same idea with soap - there's a HUGE difference between "safe" and "good". A decent cure gets you to "good"

 

[Susie]

Since I was asked to post this here from a PM exchange with the OP, I will:

OP: I hope I did not blow it I forgot to add my shea butter until about 10 min after trace (it traced right away ) I went down stairs and came back up and realized it and mixed it in to the soap looks like mashed potatoes consistancy hopefully it isnt ruined it is hot processed soap/shampoo if it does not work what will happen??

Me: OK, here is the basic difference in making HP to making CP- in HP, you can choose which oil(s) to not saponify with the lye. In other words, you choose what fat sticks around to condition your skin(or hair), and which ones become the soap. In this case, you could have chosen shea to be your "superfat" and left it until after gel IF it was only 5-10% of the total.

Since you did not designate shea as the superfat, then it is fine to add after trace, as trace is the beginning of saponification, rather than the end of it. When the soap has gelled and been molded and solidified, saponification is usually over in HP. In CP, this is not necessarily so, though, so don't mix them up. HP still requires the same cure time as CP.

 

[JCsuds]

Wow

wow I really did not understand this at all I have been watching you tube videos an both processes and it seemed that you could use it right away . ( I watched someone wash there hands with some from the spoon after they made it ) Thats why I did the hot process . is it the same for soap and shampoo?

 

[JCsuds]

Since you did not designate shea as the superfat, then it is fine to add after trace, as trace is the beginning of saponification, rather than the end of it. When the soap has gelled and been molded and solidified, saponification is usually over in HP. In CP, this is not necessarily so, though, so don't mix them up. HP still requires the same cure time as CP.[/QUOTE]


Can I add a couple of ounces of vit. e with my eo's to superfat ? also you said I should use less eo when doing hot process in our pm you said 1.76 oz would it be different ? Thanks so much for the help James

 

[Susie]

I know who it is. And you need not feel alone. Lots of folks come here with that impression.

Since the "shampoo" you are making is soap, yes, same rules apply for both.

This is exactly why I asked why you are doing HP. I kind of thought you were under that misconception. CP is so much easier to me, especially for a new soaper, that it just made no sense that you wanted to do HP for a second batch.

Lots of folks here love their HP, though(not me), and are a wealth of information on how to do it best. If you want to continue to do HP, I would make a new thread with HP in the subject line so they will know to look at it.

I don't know what you want the Vit E to do. So my answer would depend on that.

EOs can be used at a much lower rate for HP, after the gel. There is no hard and fast rule that I am aware of, but I would start at about half the normal rate and go from there. And that would be 1.76 oz total EOs for your batch size, so half of that would be 0.88 oz. See what you think about that much before adjusting from there.

 

[JCsuds]

this thread says hot process conditioning bars did I post it in the wrong place ? I am happy with the cold process I made yesterday I like that you can make nicer designs etc.

Lots of folks here love their HP, though(not me), and are a wealth of information on how to do it best. If you want to continue to do HP, I would make a new thread with HP in the subject line so they will know to look at it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Susie]

The recipes for HP and CP are alike enough that we don't have a separate HP forum. So, yes, this is the correct forum. It is just that HP loving folks will be drawn to the HP in the subject line. This discussion is fine where it is, but if you want to continue making HP, do stick that in the title somewhere. The words, "HP Help, Please" should draw them out of the woodwork.

I admit, though, I almost skipped reading anything in here, because I don't make HP, and conditioning bars can mean too many things. Only the fact that I saw it was a really new soaper drew my attention. I do make and use shampoo bars, so I thought I might be able to help a little.

A good rule of thumb on checking to see if someone that posts a video on YouTube knows what they are doing is to check all "facts" from them on this forum until you develop a better "fertilizer" filter where soaping is concerned.

 

[Seawolfe]

Dont just take our word for it re HP cure - you now have a batch of HP and CP. Try them both weekly to 6-8 weeks taking notes all the while - see the difference for yourself

 

[JCsuds]

the vit. e to be superfat oil

 

[Susie]

If you used the recipe above with 6% superfat, you already have superfat. Vitamin E is not a true "oil" you can superfat with. It is an oil soluble vitamin. Not at all the same thing. It is used as an antioxidant in oils to prevent rancidity.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=5414

I have a bad feeling that you have a bunch of Vit. E sitting around that I have told you is unnecessary and not to use it. If this is the case, I do apologize for that. However, before going out and investing any more money in ingredients, you would be wise to post your whole recipes to us, including additives, before ordering. Give us at least 3 days to respond to it. We can save you a lot of money that way.

 

[Obsidian]

I wold never add vit E to a shampoo bar, its a sticky oil that will coat the hair in not a good way.

 

[JCsuds]

yeah

I did not put any vit E in my batch and it is done . this is similar to this recipe only I did not want to use soybean as it is all GMO
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946&
obsidian set me this link a while back and this is where the foundation for my recipe came from I hope it is as successful as hers was I used beer for the water
Seawolf I will take your word for it. If ready in 4-6 weeks how will I know it is ready ?