Conditioner Bar Help!

[Cindy1961]

I want to dupe a conditioner bar I recently purchased. The ingredients, as listed, are rapeseed oil, cocoa butter, coconut oil, shea butter, evoo, blueberry extract, wheat germ oil, orange essential oil, vegetable glycerin, cetyl alcohol, fragrance, natural coloring (clay), vitamin B5.

Can any of you conditioner bar wizards give me an idea of the percentages to use?

 

[Cindy1961]

Anyone?

 

[DeeAnna]

To me, a hair conditioner bar is something you rub over wet hair. The conditioner then emulsifies as it mixes with the water on your hair. The emulsified product can then be worked through the hair and either left on or rinsed off as the user prefers.

A conditioner bar requires an emulsifier to accomplish this transformation, but there isn't an emulsifier in this product. I'm wondering if the maker didn't list all of the ingredients. The ingredients listed would make a leave-on hair butter or hair oil, and I'd expect it to be a pretty heavy-bodied butter/oil best for hair that is fairly curly and coarse.

Cetyl alcohol is the only ingredient in the list that comes close to being an emulsifier, but it's not actually an emulsifier on its own. Not only that, but if the list is in decreasing order by weight, the cetyl alcohol is only a tiny % of the total. That doesn't make sense either, assuming this is an emuslfying conditioner. If it's not an emulsifying conditioner, then the small % of cetyl is probably used to increase the hardness/firmness of the product.

There are a lot of fats in this ingredients list. I normally use only 1 or 2 fats; I doubt I'd ever use a long list of fats unless I were selling this product and wanted more "label appeal". I do not have suggestions on the percentages to use. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for your preferences and your hair type.

When I make conditioner bars, the total weight of fats make up 10% or less of the total weight of the bar. My hair is fine, so more than 10% fat weighs down my hair and makes it limp and greasy. Most of the conditioner bar I make is the emulsifier; I normally use BTMS as the emulsifier since BTMS also functions as an oil-free conditioner.

It would be good if you wait a little longer for people to see your post and think about how to answer before "bumping" your post. If it has been a couple-three days with no answer, then certainly it's appropriate to say something to bump the post.

 

[lsg]

I want to dupe a conditioner bar I recently purchased. The ingredients, as listed, are rapeseed oil, cocoa butter, coconut oil, shea butter, evoo, blueberry extract, wheat germ oil, orange essential oil, vegetable glycerin, cetyl alcohol, fragrance, natural coloring (clay), vitamin B5.

Can any of you conditioner bar wizards give me an idea of the percentages to use?

My advice is to check out the recommended usage rate of each of the ingredients. Ingredients are usually listed as those with the highest percentage to the lowest percentage used in a formula. You can do a google search. For instance, I typed in "rapeseed oil and recommended usage rate in bath and body products," and came up with this link: https://www.youwish.nl/en/oils-butters/rapeseed-oil/
It may take some research, but it can be done.

 

[Cindy1961]

To me, a hair conditioner bar is something you rub over wet hair. The conditioner then emulsifies as it mixes with the water on your hair. The emulsified product can then be worked through the hair and either left on or rinsed off as the user prefers.

A conditioner bar requires an emulsifier to accomplish this transformation, but there isn't an emulsifier in this product. I'm wondering if the maker didn't list all of the ingredients. The ingredients listed would make a leave-on hair butter or hair oil, and I'd expect it to be a pretty heavy-bodied butter/oil best for hair that is fairly curly and coarse.

Cetyl alcohol is the only ingredient in the list that comes close to being an emulsifier, but it's not actually an emulsifier on its own. Not only that, but if the list is in decreasing order by weight, the cetyl alcohol is only a tiny % of the total. That doesn't make sense either, assuming this is an emuslfying conditioner. If it's not an emulsifying conditioner, then the small % of cetyl is probably used to increase the hardness/firmness of the product.

There are a lot of fats in this ingredients list. I normally use only 1 or 2 fats; I doubt I'd ever use a long list of fats unless I were selling this product and wanted more "label appeal". I do not have suggestions on the percentages to use. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for your preferences and your hair type.

When I make conditioner bars, the total weight of fats make up 10% or less of the total weight of the bar. My hair is fine, so more than 10% fat weighs down my hair and makes it limp and greasy. Most of the conditioner bar I make is the emulsifier; I normally use BTMS as the emulsifier since BTMS also functions as an oil-free conditioner.

It would be good if you wait a little longer for people to see your post and think about how to answer before "bumping" your post. If it has been a couple-three days with no answer, then certainly it's appropriate to say something to bump the post.

Thank you, DeeAnna!

First, let me apologize for my impatience. I was excited to try to recreate this, but now I'll rethink it. I do like how it feels in my hair, which is also fine, but very dry. Based on my research, I questioned the ingredient list. The first issue I had was the use of orange essential oil, but the fragrance is blueberry!? I also wondered about the lack of an obvious emulsifier. I bought this and a shampoo bar online, and it was an impulse buy that I quickly regretted. It took nearly two months to receive, and communication with the company was really sketchy. I should have done my research before I spent my money!

I appreciate your advice and your thoughts about the ingredient list. I have both BTMS 25 and 50. Which do prefer, and why, if you don't mind sharing?

I've made a few "recipes" I found online and they were not good. I tried them because I had all the ingredients on hand. I've got a few formulas from Humblebee & Me that sound really nice, and they are nothing like this one. I had to order a few things for Marie's formulas, but I have them now.

I'll put this one on hold and wait patiently to see what other advice I may get here.

Again, thank you!

 

[Cindy1961]

My advice is to check out the recommended usage rate of each of the ingredients. Ingredients are usually listed as those with the highest percentage to the lowest percentage used in a formula. You can do a google search. For instance, I typed in "rapeseed oil and recommended usage rate in bath and body products," and came up with this link: https://www.youwish.nl/en/oils-butters/rapeseed-oil/
It may take some research, but it can be done.

Thank you so much! I'm always up for a challenge. I'll start digging!

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't have an opinion on BTMS 25 versus BTMS 50. I've mostly used a generic version of BTMS 25 in my lotion making. In this application I suspect the one you use won't matter a whole lot -- we aren't trying to make a stable lotion in this case. But that's just my opinion; others may have different thoughts on this.

The blueberry extract isn't necessarily a fragrance. A very quick check of random internet sites suggests it may be useful for hair care. I didn't take the time to seek out reputable information sources, however, so this could be a bunch of wishful thinking by internet bloggers more interested in "clicks" than accuracy.

If this product does have a blueberry scent, my guess is the scent is coming mostly from the "fragrance" listed after cetyl alcohol.

Orange essential oil does have scent, so it might be in this product for the fragrance, but it too may also be included as a beneficial additive. Hard to say.

I misspoke earlier about the % of fats in my conditioner. It was the liquid conditioners that had about 10% fats. The solid conditioner I have been making has around 25% to 35% fats. That's what I get for speaking from memory.

Of the fats in a conditioner bar, I typically use 10% hemisqualane, which is a silicone alternative that makes it easier to detangle the hair and also reduces frizz.

The remaining 15% to 25% are one or two actual carrier oils. I've tried avocado, meadowfoam, coconut, and even tallow. They all work. I choose fats that are good for skin, not overly greasy for the hair, and also don't go rancid easily so the product has a long shelf life.

Of the remaining major ingredients, I've consistently used 10% cetyl alcohol with the remainder being BTMS emulsifier.

Of the minor additives, I also use a preservative (phenonip) at 0.5% and panthenol at 3% for anti-itching and shine. I sometimes add a tiny bit of fragrance (0.5%) and maybe a few drops of oxide colorant (often ultramarine blue).

 

[Cindy1961]

I don't have an opinion on BTMS 25 versus BTMS 50. I've mostly used a generic version of BTMS 25 in my lotion making. In this application I suspect the one you use won't matter a whole lot -- we aren't trying to make a stable lotion in this case. But that's just my opinion; others may have different thoughts on this.

The blueberry extract isn't necessarily a fragrance. A very quick check of random internet sites suggests it may be useful for hair care. I didn't take the time to seek out reputable information sources, however, so this could be a bunch of wishful thinking by internet bloggers more interested in "clicks" than accuracy.

If this product does have a blueberry scent, my guess is the scent is coming mostly from the "fragrance" listed after cetyl alcohol.

Orange essential oil does have scent, so it might be in this product for the fragrance, but it too may also be included as a beneficial additive. Hard to say.

I misspoke earlier about the % of fats in my conditioner. It was the liquid conditioners that had about 10% fats. The solid conditioner I have been making has around 25% to 35% fats. That's what I get for speaking from memory.

Of the fats in a conditioner bar, I typically use 10% hemisqualane, which is a silicone alternative that makes it easier to detangle the hair and also reduces frizz.

The remaining 15% to 25% are one or two actual carrier oils. I've tried avocado, meadowfoam, coconut, and even tallow. They all work. I choose fats that are good for skin, not overly greasy for the hair, and also don't go rancid easily so the product has a long shelf life.

Of the remaining major ingredients, I've consistently used 10% cetyl alcohol with the remainder being BTMS emulsifier.

Of the minor additives, I also use a preservative (phenonip) at 0.5% and panthenol at 3% for anti-itching and shine. I sometimes add a tiny bit of fragrance (0.5%) and maybe a few drops of oxide colorant (often ultramarine blue).

Thanks again for all of your help, DeeAnna! I'm going to make it this weekend, and I'll use the percentages you've given me ad a starting point.

I assumed the blueberry extract had some benefits and wasn't for the fragrance. It's weird though, because it doesn't smell like orange at all, even though orange EO is listed.

Anywho, thanks for all of your help. I'll let you know how it turns out!

 

[justjacqui]

The ingredients you have listed in that conditioner bar are not in the correct INCI format which is used for cosmetic products. So be aware that they may not be in the correct order.

My guess is that the "rapeseed oil" is actually BTMS which is derived from rapeseed (Colza) oil.