Cold Process Liquid Soap

[Susie]

I use 0.5 oz grated hand made soap(regardless of batch size). I generally use my "not pretty" soap for this purpose. I try to only use 5% superfat soap that is low in color. I don't use micas or such, so use soaps with those at your own risk.

If you use grated soap, add it to the hot lye water after you make sure the KOH is dissolved completely. I just give it a quick whiz with the SB to mix it, then dump that into the oils. Remember that the hotter your lye water, the faster you get to trace, so don't wait for anything to cool. There is no difference in time spent SBing to trace between KOH LS made with grated soap and KOH LS made with glycerin. There is quite a lot less time in SBing the NaOH LS to the stage it said to stop SBing.

As for end results, I am not the best person to ask. I tend to use my grated soap with laundry/dish soap with 0% SF, and my glycerin LS for hand soap with 3% SF. So, I would be comparing apples and oranges.

 

[DeeAnna]

The point of "trace" is that your soap batter has reached a stable mixture, meaning the fat and water layers won't separate (break) when you stop mixing. If the batter isn't stirred or otherwise encouraged to form a stable mixture, the saponification reaction can take a very long time. Once a stable mixture is created, however, saponification can proceed on its merry way.

One way to get to a stable mixture is to simply mix the ingredients until enough soap forms and the batter reaches the point of a chemically stable emulsion (aka trace).

The other way is to add extra ingredients. I can think of three methods --

One method is to add a finished soap as a chemical emulsifier (Susie's added soap). Adding a bit of soap to a young soap batter will jump start the formation of a stable mixture. The added soap acts exactly like the emulsifiers BTMS or e-wax when you make a lotion.

Another method is to increase the mutual solubility of all ingredients so they can become intimately mixed more easily and thus start to saponify quicker. Glycerin does this.

A third method is to add a catalyst that accelerates the rate of saponification. A catalyst is any chemical that makes it easier for the fats to break apart and react with the lye. Two examples of catalysts are eugenol, a chemical in clove EO, and the notorious fast-tracing floral EOs and FOs.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Ah okay. In that case, I think I might use soap for washing up liquid and try both soap and glycerin in two identical recipes to see if there is a difference between the two.

 

[Susie]

Washing up liquid = dish washing liquid soap? Glycerin is a tad expensive for me to use it in dish washing soap. I would really rather save it strictly for hand washing. But that is me.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Washing up liquid = dish washing liquid soap? Glycerin is a tad expensive for me to use it in dish washing soap. I would really rather save it strictly for hand washing. But that is me.

It does indeed - my English ways.

I am wondering mainly how a hand washing soap comes out with the grated soap instead of glycerin, mainly - as you say, it's not cheap.

 

[Susie]

I was sitting here wondering the same thing. Theoretically, there should be no difference except for the agent used to speed trace.

The 0% SF for washing up liquid is perfectly safe for routine hand washing, but it is 100% CO, so it is drying.

There really should not be any difference.

And if I did not have almost a gallon of liquid hand washing soap, I would make more to test it.

 

[DeeAnna]

The one opinion I can offer -- I made the same LS paste in three ways -- (1) all water, (2) 1 part glycerin and 2 parts water, and (3) 2 parts glycerin and 1 part water. I diluted them all with just water. What I noted is the diluted soap using (3) the paste with the most glycerin seems to make slightly less lather.

Not that it exactly relates to the discussion, but since we're on the subject of glycerin vs water, I also did another trial where I diluted the same LS paste with (4) just water and (5) a mixture of water and glycerin. In this case, there was definitely less lather with (5) the glycerin-water dilution.

I wouldn't expect soap to have much if any effect on lather.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Oooh, then I am going to make a "dish washing liquid" (washing up liquid is so ingrained in my head) first, then afterwards two lots of normal liquid soap, one with the gly as trace-maker and another with soap for a side-by-side comparison.

I am going to do an experiment like what you do! I am really far too excited.

 

[Carreiram]

Ok, just realized that a lye calculator can be found online using this. As I said, I am brain fried and running in a tight schedule. Thanks!

 

[lidia]

Failed attempt at CP LS...

Hello everyone

I finally took the time to try the CPLS method originally posted by Susie in this thread. Alas, something went wrong. I'm guessing it was my change in the recipe. Here is what I used:
Coconut Oil (76 degree) 24.00 75.00
Castor Oil 8.00 25.00
Potassium Hydroxide : 7.83 ounces
MinimumWater : 23.48 ounces
OtherItems: Amounts: Units:
Grated soap 0.50 ounce
Essential Oils 1.00 ounce

I used calculator from: http://summerbeemeadow.com/sites/all/cgi-bin/sbm_lye_calculator_1.1.cgi. The change I made was from soybean oil to castor oil...

I made this soap last Sunday early evening. I wasn't sure what is the consistency of elmer's paste, so I was mixing till really thick, like whipped cream with a heavy body. I went to check on it today, Tuesday, and the soap looked like hard soap... I decided to do the zap test (for the first time in my life - I've made a handfull of CP soap bars to date, with no zap problems). I dug in with a knife to get some soap from the middle and oh boy did it zap. I can still feel it.... :shock: The liquid separated from the solids - it's all liquid on the bottom. I posted a photo of this failed attempt at [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oJgH57sorQ&feature=youtu.be[/ame] (please pause the photo as it only displays for 5 seconds). The main question I have is: what now??? :???: Is there a way to recover from this and if so how?

I was trying for 2% superfat as I wanted to use it as a bath soap.

Thanks much
Lidia

 

[DeeAnna]

True, the zappy-ness is not what you expected, but the soap is not a failure either. Set it aside and wait a bit more to see if Susie or Irish Lass will help you out.

Your recipe looks fine, although be aware that the SBM calc is based on 95% pure KOH. You didn't say what your actual KOH purity was, so you might want to check into that while you're waiting.

 

[Susie]

The top is soap paste, though? If so, have you tried zap testing the top portion of the paste? If it is zapless, I would pull the paste off of that liquid and see whether it will dilute out to soap. Hold onto the alkali liquid, though, in case you get separating soap, you can just add a little bit at the time back in, until it goes back together.

The only possibilities I can think of is inaccurate KOH purity or an inaccurate scale. But fixing it remains the same no matter what the cause.

 

[Soapmaker145]

My suggestion is to recook it to mix it all together. It should be fine as long as your lye is good quality. If it is in a crock pot, just reheat to melt. It looks like it wasn't fully traced when you put it to sleep. It needed to be stirred a little longer. Getting a solid trace with KOH is harder. The lye and the oils just want to separate more. I use a similar method and I check on it 2 or 3 times the first day. If it separates, I stir to remix and reheat if necessary.

 

[lidia]

Thanks for response. I used Duda's Red Hot Devil Potash, Dry Potassium Hydroxide 90+% Purity.

Lidia

I believe I tried zap testing the top part. I'm kind of reluctant to try again... roblem: I was doing it all outside, since I have no fan hood over my stove and wanted ample air. I did throw a doubled towel over the mixture and brought it into the garage after a while of sitting outside. Perhaps it just go too cold too quickly. It's in a stainless steel pot, so I'll reheat and see what happens.

Btw, I was wondering about the purity of potash. Still if mine is less potent than expected, I would expect less zap. ;-)

 

[Susie]

I don't know that brand. I can't help much on what their purity is.

 

[lidia]

I reheated the paste for about 5 - 10 minutes and mixed. That's about 2 days ago. It became *very* thick. Just checked on it and this is what it looks like now: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkzfg_2HIpQ[/ame]. No separation. However, it still has a zap (I was weary of testing... ;-) ). I have just reheated it again (5 minutes) and will leave under a couple of towels once more. I guess I will repeat this process till no zap. Is there a better way to test if it's safe?

 

[Susie]

If you are absolutely sure that you are getting a sharp zap, cooking more is not going to help unless you add some oil to react with that KOH. Just pick one of the oils, and add very small amount (14 grams or so) about once every 30 minutes until you no longer get zap.

I would also assume, from this point onward, that your lye purity is higher than the 95% assumed by SBM. So, use Soapee.com, and keep increasing the purity until you can make a 0% superfat soap without getting zapped.

 

[DeeAnna]

Keep track of the weights of the oil added per Susie's suggestion above. Then add that weight of added oil to your original recipe. Go to Soapee.com. Enter the fats from your revised recipe. Set the superfat to zero.

Now, set the KOH purity in Soapee to what you THINK the purity of the KOH is. Look at the KOH weight that Soapee has calculated. Is that the weight of KOH that you actually used? If not, change the KOH purity setting until Soapee gives you the weight of the KOH you really used.

When you get a match, then that purity is about what your KOH purity actually is. You will want to use this actual purity % in future recipes.

For a new recipe, use Soapee and enter the actual purity for the KOH. Set your superfat to whatever you want it to be. Enter your fat weights as usual. THe KOH that Soapee will calculate should be more accurate for this new recipe.

 

[Susie]

Keep track of the weights of the oil added per Susie's suggestion above. Then add that weight of added oil to your original recipe. Go to Soapee.com. Enter the fats from your revised recipe. Set the superfat to zero.

Now, set the KOH purity in Soapee to what you THINK the purity of the KOH is. Look at the KOH weight that Soapee has calculated. Is that the weight of KOH that you actually used? If not, change the KOH purity setting until Soapee gives you the weight of the KOH you really used.

When you get a match, then that purity is about what your KOH purity actually is. You will want to use this actual purity % in future recipes.

For a new recipe, use Soapee and enter the actual purity for the KOH. Set your superfat to whatever you want it to be. Enter your fat weights as usual. THe KOH that Soapee will calculate should be more accurate for this new recipe.

Thank you! That's a much better way to explain it! I left out a dozen steps when typing that. (In my defense, it was before coffee.)

 

[DeeAnna]

Oh -- I get it now. I thought you were suggesting to make new batches of soap with different purity settings! I'm set straight now on what you were thinking. Neverrrrr miiiiinnnd....