Cold Cream

[Guest]

Hello, Ive just been fiddling around with my creams again and im not quite sure what to call what i have just made. It started out as a cold cream -borax and beeswax water in oil emulsion- but im not sure i should consider it a cold cream anymore. It isnt thick, oily or heavy in any way. infact i think i like it as a leave on more than some of my lotions. its cooling when applying, wet feeling but not wet, and absorbs nicely and almost immediately. i cant really see calling it a cold cream because of its lightness and how rapidly it absorbs, so what did i just make? :/

 

[judymoody]

You can call it whatever you like, I suppose.

I think that cold cream applies to the method that you used and specifically to beeswax/borax emulsions that have relatively more oil than water. There may be a better explanation than this on Swift's blog.

What preservative did you use?

 

[Hazel]

Sounds like a lotion if it isn't thick or heavy.

 

[Guest]

Thank you ladies, and there lies my problem, lol.

I should correct a bit it think. When i said it wasnt thick or heavy i was referring to its consistency when applied. In the container it is quite thick and to look at it you would think-cold cream, however when applying, i think lotion. actually what i thought was, ooh what a nice moisturizer

Re the name cold cream referring to the method-that is what i thought, however at this point there is much more water in it than oil.

Id rather not say about the preservative until i see if it works as it is not officially classified as a preservative. its a conundrum.

 

[Hazel]

I've had store bought creams that looked thick but when applied acted more like a lotion. Just call it whippy cream. :wink:

Id rather not say about the preservative until i see if it works as it is not officially classified as a preservative. its a conundrum.

If it's not officially a preservative, then I wouldn't trust it to prevent bacteria and mold.

 

[Guest]

yeah, i guess for now something like whippy cream will have to do.

im semi trusting. i have a bit sitting out on the counter uncovered where it will stay until it grows ickys or morphs in some way. the rest is in the fridge, being used, and probably some forced on my friends today for opinions, lol ... oh, the experimenting never stops!

 

[Hazel]

Mold can be seen and rancidity can be smelled but bacteria can't be seen by the naked eye. Bacterial/fungi skin infections was discussed in a class I took several years ago. I don't remember a lot of from it but I do remember some of the pictures we were shown. Some of them were quite horrible so the idea of not using a preservative or using an unproven preservative makes me very, very nervous.

 

[Guest]

I agree, which is why id rather not say. while I am not using a 'preservative' per se, and as may be recommended for use in lotions and cosmetics, it is indeed a proven antibacterial and antifungal substance with hundreds of years of use as such. It is just not commonly used in this manner. So, im not really risking anything, just not sure how well it will perform in the mix im using.

 

[Lindy]

I'm really hoping you are going to send this to a lab for testing. You may not be able to see anything growing, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I've seen so many fads over the years that when I hear "not a preservative per sae" I start to lose my mind. A preservative does so much more than anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

At any rate, it doesn't cost a lot of money to do a challenge test with it to see how it does.

 

[Guest]

I'm really hoping you are going to send this to a lab for testing. You may not be able to see anything growing, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I've seen so many fads over the years that when I hear "not a preservative per sae" I start to lose my mind. A preservative does so much more than anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.

At any rate, it doesn't cost a lot of money to do a challenge test with it to see how it does.

oh you had me laughing dont lose your mind yet. what is the so much more that you are referring to?

 

[itunu]

I agree with Lindy and Hazel.

For more info have a look at this....
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.co.uk ... tives.html

(She also has some very useful tutorials on making lotion etc.)

I would advise to keep the cream/lotion in the fridge and use within 7-10 days of making it unless it already contains one of the tried and tested preservatives which Swift mentions in her blog.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for the info ladies. Im not sure how this ended up being focused on my supposed lack of preservatives, but because it is, i think ill bow out of it. Thank you again though.

 

[Hazel]

@itunu

Thanks for posting the link.

@whs

It's very kind and generous of Lindy to participate on this forum and give advice since she is a busy woman and has a successful B&B business. I've learned a lot from her since I joined this forum and I know she has helped others besides myself. She has also posted recipes on the forum to help beginners. I felt your reply to Lindy's post came across as discourteous and I hope you didn't intend it the way it sounded.

 

[Guest]

Wow, im sorry you thought that was discourteous. I thought starting and ending with thanks would reflect my appreciation for the comments that were posted in response to my question. No disrespect, I just know there are two very differing schools of thought on 'preservatives' and i didnt want to get into a discussion about it in this thread so i thought because it seemed to be going that way i would bow out and state why. no disrespect, and im sorry you took it that way.

edited... sorry, didnt look to see which comment you were referring to before i wrote the above. Re the response to lindy, she said she loses her mind when people post about not using preservatives. i understand this, and i got a little chuckle about this and decided to let her know. so, i guess to defend myself, which i am not happy to have to do, i will state this. I have 20 years of lab experience, and i know how to make lotions. the responses regarding preservatives assume i was doing something potentially dangerous, and make suggestions on how i should avoid this danger. I chose not to state what i am using as a preservative because i dont want others to go playing around with it when they maybe should not, and also because i dont want to disclose my entire recipe before i know it is safe and it works. I think this is responsible.

Lindy, if you were offended, i apologize. i liked your comment and responded, thats it.

 

[Lindy]

whs - I think the issue is that this is a teaching forum and as you stated you don't want to be sharing info that may not be safe to those whose experience does not match yours. This is the reason I jumped in on the preservative issue, so often, and you'll see this if you were to do a search on preservatives, we have the green gang coming in to try and convert people to making cosmetic products (lotions and creams qualify) that they are using an anti-oxidant or alternative essential oils. Now I'm sure you can see how we need to discourage these practices since they have been proven to not work. There are so many DIY blogs that also get into that nonsense.

Preservatives are not bad, they protect one's health. I'm sure in your profession you have seen the results of staph infection which as we know is something that exists on our skin anyways and when there is product being applied to the skin that also has bacteria the results are frightening. The biggest fear being the staph is antibiotic resistant.

So perhaps moving forward if you are not wanting to get into a preservative conversation that you just not bring that part up since it is such a secret.

Namaste

 

[Guest]

Hi Lindy, thanks for the response. Just to clarify a bit, I did not bring up the preservative issue and I only clarified about the reasons i didnt want to disclose it in the last post. I said nothing about not wanting to disclose anything to anyone with less experience, and made no insinuation that anyone was less qualified in anything than me. As i stated, i was using something in a recipe that i had not proven. As everyone is so concerned and assuming that i am supposedly not using a preservative, i am a little dismayed about your comment re my recipe being so secret that perhaps i shouldnt post. with all the concern about preservatives and safety, would you? I stated that i have lab experience only because there were several responses assuming i was doing something that was unsafe, even with no knowledge of any safety issues.

as an aside, i am one of the 'green' crowd and i have read the heated debates and overwhelmingly and scientifically false information being re written, blogged about, and offered as fact and instruction on both sides. I dont agree with an omnipotent statement that preservatives are good, and i am also not trying to convert anyone to the 'green side. precisely why i didnt want to get into the issue and bowed out.

I did like your comment, the laughing was sincere and i asked an honest and unassuming question in response. i meant no offense. (and still dont despite felin like i have been attacked) i am still curious about what the other things you were referring to if you'd care to respond. if not, no worries... moving along... namaste also...

 

[Lindy]

What I'm referring to is the fads around using things like Rosemary Oleoresin Extract, Grape seed extract, vitamin e, tea tree oil and other essential oils being used as preservatives. I have taken the time to have my lotions, creams and butters tested to see how they stack up. Sometimes the results have surprised me with a fail in a formulae that should have been fine. I've also learned that not all preservatives truly hold up to challenge testing, even at full recommended usage. There are preservatives out there that are pH sensitive which people mis-use because they're "natural" rather than making sure their product falls within the limits.

Even with "proper" preservatives, mishandling of the product also sets it up for bacterial outbreaks by something as innocent as condensation. Let alone preservative being added while the product is too hot, using the wrong preservative in an oil only products and sometimes you need more than one preservative to make sure the product is safe. I'm not talking about preserving it into the next decade but 6 months after opening would be nice, don't you agree?

When we're making products like this and we are not using ingredients that keep the product fresh and someone gets sick, our insurance will not cover us and how you are personally liable on a law suit, because it can be shown that we were not using due diligence and safe manufacturing practices.

As you can tell, this is a bit of a passion for me and I'm passionate about people learning what is safe, and has been proven safe.

 

[Guest]

Yes i can see this is indeed a passion for you, and that is commendable. it should be the same for everyone making personal care products. Safe products are of the utmost importance, and some shelf life to the product is important too. And im still not going to get sucked into a what works and what doesn't debate, at least not here when all i was wondering was if my cold cream was still considered a cold cream

What were you referring to though, when you said 'A preservative does so much more than anti-fungal and anti-bacterial.'

 

[Lindy]

I think at this point you are wanting a preservative discussion, which you say you don't. With your background I would think you already know these answers and have a different agenda now.

There are some wonderful articles on the net that discuss this subject in detail. HERE is one such paper.

 

[Guest]

Ok then, nevermind.