Coffee Fragrance Query

[linne1gi]

I was also really suprised that she said her recipe gives her long working time. Also that she could stick blend for 15 seconds in a row after emulsion.

I never stick blend my fragrances, but I tend to need a lot of working time. I also try not to stick blend my color but that doesn't always work out.

I agree - I almost never stick blend fragrance in, or color, unless I need a thicker trace. And lately I have been using Lard more - it traces very slow and really helps me with more working time. I have been entering into The Soap Challenges lately and all the challenges require more working time. Remember the tall and skinny shimmy? Wowza, that one took me at least 4 attempts to get right - and a lot of lard and olive oil!

 

[AndyRoo]

Your recipe is quite heavy on solid butters - so I'm not at all surprised your batter thickened up. Plus you have over 17.5 % of Castor Oil which does tend to accelerate trace. If I were you I would change up your recipe, especially if you want to test out new fragrances. I looked at the site you provided on your coffee fragrance oil and they don't tell you how it behaves in CP - which is a pain, but on the plus side, I think it only has 2.6% Vanillin. So I don't think it would darken much.

I use the batter for all my other soaps without too much of an issue. I've started using a 2.5:1 water to lye ratio which seems to provide a decent amount of working time. I might try reducing the amount of OO or something.

I was also really suprised that she said her recipe gives her long working time. Also that she could stick blend for 15 seconds in a row after emulsion.

I never stick blend my fragrances, but I tend to need a lot of working time. I also try not to stick blend my color but that doesn't always work out.

He*

And for the most part, he doesn't have any problems.

 

[penelopejane]

I agree with linne, sorry I’ve been using my phone and didn’t look at the recipe before. Most use castor oil at a maximum of 5% when it is effective at supporting bubbles. Above that and it effects trace and makes a soap sticky. I don’t use any other oils or butters at less than 10% as I can’t detect a difference below that. So change your recipe first before you waste more ingredients.

 

[AndyRoo]

I agree with linne, sorry I’ve been using my phone and didn’t look at the recipe before. Most use castor oil at a maximum of 5% when it is effective at supporting bubbles. Above that and it effects trace and makes a soap sticky. I don’t use any other oils or butters at less than 10% as I can’t detect a difference below that. So change your recipe first before you waste more ingredients.

Maybe I'll mix up the recipe tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

I agree with linne, sorry I’ve been using my phone and didn’t look at the recipe before. Most use castor oil at a maximum of 5% when it is effective at supporting bubbles. Above that and it effects trace and makes a soap sticky. I don’t use any other oils or butters at less than 10% as I can’t detect a difference below that. So change your recipe first before you waste more ingredients.

How about something like this?

 

[penelopejane]

You’ve still got almond, Shea and mango at 2.5%. Honestly, you won’t be able to detect them below 10%.

I’d personally cut your number of oils and test the difference between cocoa, Shea and mango butters in different soaps. Butters can inhibit bubbles but I love them on the skin. Shea in a soap OR cocoa in a soap are quite different. Otherwise I’d drop the coconut to 10% increase everything else to 10% and reduce the OO. Except castor, keep that at 5%.

In testing Soap recipes you are trying to work out which oils/butters work for you and your skin. Your current recipe won’t do this as the tiny amounts will all be lost/wasted.

 

[Megan]

He*

And for the most part, he doesn't have any problems.

Sorry, I wan't paying attention and I shouldn't have assumed.
Also, I wasn't saying you did have issues, or automatically would, with the recipe. I'm not skeptical about it. I was just surprised with the oils you were using and the amounts that it wasn't a quick mover. As I've never tried it, I wouldn't know...

 

[AndyRoo]

Sorry, I wan't paying attention and I shouldn't have assumed.
Also, I wasn't saying you did have issues, or automatically would, with the recipe. I'm not skeptical about it. I was just surprised with the oils you were using and the amounts that it wasn't a quick mover. As I've never tried it, I wouldn't know...

It wasn't a dig! Don't think that. I always take advice on board. I tweak my recipes quite a lot, this was the first time I'd had any disasters with this one... but I'm still perfecting it.

I've made a few soaps with this one, and it's been ok so far. I like experimenting with new things and techniques.

 

[linne1gi]

I use the batter for all my other soaps without too much of an issue. I've started using a 2.5:1 water to lye ratio which seems to provide a decent amount of working time. I might try reducing the amount of OO or something.

In my mind adding more water to help with your working time with your soap - means you have the wrong recipe. I consistently use a 2:1 water/lye ratio and sometimes even a 1.75:1 water/lye ratio, and there is plenty of working time. By increasing the water you are promoting a host of additional problems: First, it increases your risk of soda ash, your soap will tend to overheat - causing heat tunnels and a host of other problems, your soap will take longer to unmold, and will tend to be sticky - and can possibly even warp because so much of the water has to evaporate out. Anyway, not trying to bully you - just would like to to consider changing up your recipe. Reduce the % of Castor Oil - 5% if fine - Castor oil doesn't give bubbles, it sustains them. Increase your Olive Oil, don't decrease it. Also Babasso Oil is quite similar to Coconut Oil - but way more expensive. Just use Coconut Oil. The recipe that AndyRoo posted above is better but I would still combine the Babassu Oil and Coconut Oil and actually lower the % to 20. Higher than that and the soap can be too drying. I would propose: Coconut Oil 20%, Cocoa Butter 10%, Mango Butter 5%, Shea Butter 5%, Olive Oil 45%, Sweet Almond Oil, 10%, Castor Oil 5%. And lower your water amount as well. Much luck to you.

 

[AndyRoo]

You’ve still got almond, Shea and mango at 2.5%. Honestly, you won’t be able to detect them below 10%.

I’d personally cut your number of oils and test the difference between cocoa, Shea and mango butters in different soaps. Butters can inhibit bubbles but I love them on the skin. Shea in a soap OR cocoa in a soap are quite different. Otherwise I’d drop the coconut to 10% increase everything else to 10% and reduce the OO. Except castor, keep that at 5%.

In testing Soap recipes you are trying to work out which oils/butters work for you and your skin. Your current recipe won’t do this as the tiny amounts will all be lost/wasted.

Umm, so for the novice that I am: Are you saying ditch some of them altogether and just concentrate on a few ingredients instead? At the moment, my most "in stock" items are: Olive Oil, Babassu Oil, Coconut Oil, Castor Oil, and then I have a pretty even choice of Shea or Cocoa butter, TBH. If I can get a good recipe going and not have to keep so many pots hanging around, that works for me!

 

[Megan]

Umm, so for the novice that I am: Are you saying ditch some of them altogether and just concentrate on a few ingredients instead? At the moment, my most "in stock" items are: Olive Oil, Babassu Oil, Coconut Oil, Castor Oil, and then I have a pretty even choice of Shea or Cocoa butter, TBH. If I can get a good recipe going and not have to keep so many pots hanging around, that works for me!

I would choose either babassu or coconut (but personally I believe babassu is just overpriced coconut...unless you are using it directly on the skin, then it's pretty awesome).
I don't think using a combination of butters is a bad thing. I have a double butter bar, and want to create a triple butter one. However, if using a butter at 2.5%, you probably won't see a big difference...like others had said. That being said, doing the single butter bars and comparing, you might find that you do prefer one over the others. If I had to choose, I would probably pick cocoa over shea just for the hardness factor.

 

[AndyRoo]

I would choose either babassu or coconut (but personally I believe babassu is just overpriced coconut...unless you are using it directly on the skin, then it's pretty awesome).
I don't think using a combination of butters is a bad thing. I have a double butter bar, and want to create a triple butter one. However, if using a butter at 2.5%, you probably won't see a big difference...like others had said. That being said, doing the single butter bars and comparing, you might find that you do prefer one over the others. If I had to choose, I would probably pick cocoa over shea just for the hardness factor.

What I want to come up with is a single base batter that I can then customise with fragrances, and clays and the occasional additives etc. It doesn't have to be fantastically fancy or anything; I only make them for me and my friends. My partner did talk about maybe at some point in the far flung future going to some craft fairs etc... but that would really only ever be if we genuinely thought they were worthy. It won't be happening any time soon - if ever.

 

[linne1gi]

Umm, so for the novice that I am: Are you saying ditch some of them altogether and just concentrate on a few ingredients instead? At the moment, my most "in stock" items are: Olive Oil, Babassu Oil, Coconut Oil, Castor Oil, and then I have a pretty even choice of Shea or Cocoa butter, TBH. If I can get a good recipe going and not have to keep so many pots hanging around, that works for me!

Yes - as Megan says, Babassu is just overpriced Coconut Oil. I would use it up for sure, but not purchase specifically for soap making. You can definitely get a nice soap from Olive, Coconut, Shea Butter, Cocoa Butter and Castor Oil if those are the oils you have. Do you know how to use soapcalc.net? That way you can input your oils/butters and come up with a great recipe all your own. There's no better feeling than to make a soap recipe that you hand created. Here's a tutorial on soapcalc if you don't understand it. Leaving Facebook

A simple recipe using only those oils/butters: Olive 50%, Shea 10%, Cocoa 10%, Coconut 25%, Castor 5%.

 

[AndyRoo]

Yes - as Megan says, Babassu is just overpriced Coconut Oil. I would use it up for sure, but not purchase specifically for soap making. You can definitely get a nice soap from Olive, Coconut, Shea Butter, Cocoa Butter and Castor Oil if those are the oils you have. Do you know how to use soapcalc.net? That way you can input your oils/butters and come up with a great recipe all your own. There's no better feeling than to make a soap recipe that you hand created. Here's a tutorial on soapcalc if you don't understand it. https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https://www.humblebeeandme.com/faqs/how-do-i-use-soapcalc/?fbclid=IwAR3XwFCpHKoTGZXD2ID8wfGrlwbTiljTESD1BUs3qYLya-NY7dcZgs70LZI&h=AT3jdbVPf_8rB9YWAqdOcPVOrqKHApmFJ5yDfM8Ka3wMSWXydica7gJ46FiAwN3OumiBMMGiIIzWXs_ggHS52XeHeZJBE-hKOIttItpD7bw_u66ecYeQNnr64aXRleV_4WIpFfLD3agIfq7ix1R4dHE

I've used SoapCalc in the past. The one I use now the the one of SoapMakingFriend - purely because it allows you to save your recipes, which is handy for me because my note taking is appalling and my memory is shocking! :/

I'll use up the Babassu and then focus on Coconut Oil instead if it's much of a muchness.

The reason I ended up with Babassu is because I'm vegetarian and, yes, I know you don't eat soap - but I can't bring myself to use tallow or lard in my recipes as a result. Not a judgement on anyone; I just can't bring myself to do it. Then I tried some with Palm Oil and felt guilty for that (even though it was RSPO) and then I discovered Babassu (which I know is from Palm trees, but I was told wasn't destructive for animals)... and so on and so on.

I'm quite lucky in that money isn't too much of a problem (well paid job) - so I can afford to make mistakes... I'd just rather avoid them if I can!

 

[linne1gi]

I've used SoapCalc in the past. The one I use now the the one of SoapMakingFriend - purely because it allows you to save your recipes, which is handy for me because my note taking is appalling and my memory is shocking! :/

I'll use up the Babassu and then focus on Coconut Oil instead if it's much of a muchness.

The reason I ended up with Babassu is because I'm vegetarian and, yes, I know you don't eat soap - but I can't bring myself to use tallow or lard in my recipes as a result. Not a judgement on anyone; I just can't bring myself to do it. Then I tried some with Palm Oil and felt guilty for that (even though it was RSPO) and then I discovered Babassu (which I know is from Palm trees, but I was told wasn't destructive for animals)... and so on and so on.

I'm quite lucky in that money isn't too much of a problem (well paid job) - so I can afford to make mistakes... I'd just rather avoid them if I can!

That's a shame because Lard makes a wonderful soap, probably my favorite soaping oil. Maybe if you thought about the fact that - this way none of the animal goes to waste. And in thinking about what you put on your body - nobody would want to coat themselves with Coconut Oil, or Olive Oil. The other thing is that all vegetable oils figure into the destruction of the forests - Lard doesn't.

 

[penelopejane]

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/
This is a fabulous recipe to start with for bar soap (don’t use it as a shampoo)
Use coconut oil instead of soy bean oil, cut castor to 5%, Try avocado and Shea in one soap then try almond and Shea in another then try avocado and cocoa in another soap and almond and Shea and another with mango etc then another soap combining the butters and work out what each of the ingredients bring to the soap. I agree with the others about babassu but try it yourself and compare it with coconut.

Unfortunately no one soap recipe will suit everyone. What might be one person’s perfect soap will be someone else’s nightmare. You need to try different combinations making 500g batches, cure for 8 weeks and compare them in blind testing with a few different people.

Personally, don’t use animal fats or palm in soap or in food. In Australia there is resistance to both in handmade soap.

 

[AndyRoo]

That's a shame because Lard makes a wonderful soap, probably my favorite soaping oil. Maybe if you thought about the fact that - this way none of the animal goes to waste. And in thinking about what you put on your body - nobody would want to coat themselves with Coconut Oil, or Olive Oil. The other thing is that all vegetable oils figure into the destruction of the forests - Lard doesn't.

I just can't do it. Again, not a judgement on anyone, but I don't drink dairy milk or wear leather etc. I'm not a vegan (I have hens, so I eat eggs), and I eat honey. I just try to avoid animal products - especially when it results in them going to the big farmyard in the sky!

 

[linne1gi]

I just can't do it. Again, not a judgement on anyone, but I don't drink dairy milk or wear leather etc. I'm not a vegan (I have hens, so I eat eggs), and I eat honey. I just try to avoid animal products - especially when it results in them going to the big farmyard in the sky!

They've already gone to the farmyard in the sky - because someone is eating Pork Chops or bacon. I don't eat meat either - but I feel it's okay to use lard, because that way no part of the animal is tossed aside. But that's me - you have to do what you believe in. Let's not beat this poor dead pig any longer, LOL.

 

[AndyRoo]

Obviously I will update the recipe once I run out of Babassu, but for now I might try this with a 2:1 water-lye ratio.

 

[linne1gi]

Obviously I will update the recipe once I run out of Babassu, but for now I might try this with a 2:1 water-lye ratio.

Looks good!

 

[AndyRoo]

Well, I tried it with that new mix of oils. They didn't give me quite as much working time as the other recipe (I had maybe 3-4 minutes, the other one probably gave me about 5-6, so there's not a lot in it), but it was a decent amount. I'm not sure what it is, but there's something about that fragrance oil which really accelerates the trace. I tried a swirl in the pot, but it had gone gloopy as I started to pour and the last bit was being spooned into the mould. Usually I'd bin it if it did that, but I am just going to see what it turns out like. I doubt it'll be anything I think "Oooh, pretty!" to - but it might be useable.