Castille

[Nonnie]

I'm notsure if this is semantics, or legit question.

100% olive oil used to make soap=castille(even tho the big company used shall not name screwed that up)

100% olive oil, but with goat milk, oats, clay, etc=still castille? If it's simply the oil choice that determines the classification, then I would say castille.

Olive, plus other oils= bastille. But are these limited to non animal(no lard or tallow)?

I just want to see what the general idea is.

 

[lsg]

I always thought of Castile soap as made with only olive oil. The definition from Meriam Webster is--
a fine hard bland soap made from olive oil and sodium hydroxide. Today however, many define Castile soap as a mixture of vegetable oils and Olive oil plus sodium hydroxide.

 

[AliOop]

I still prefer to use Castile to refer only to 100% OO soap. But that company-which-shall-not-be-named won the lawsuit and the right to use the term "Castile" for any liquid or bar soap made with plant-based oils. Under that definition, a 100% shea butter soap would be "Castile."

I don't believe the lawsuit addressed additives, but given the ruling, it likely would not matter what additives were included to this version of "Castile" soap. After all, that company adds all kinds of different EOs to their "Castile" soap.

"Bastille" is a term coined by, and generally used only by soapers, to refer to a majority OO soap with other oils, and possibly additives. I don't believe most non-soapers would know what you meant by that term.

 

[Nonnie]

I still prefer to use Castile to refer only to 100% OO soap. But that company-which-shall-not-be-named won the lawsuit and the right to use the term "Castile" for any liquid or bar soap made with plant-based oils. Under that definition, a 100% shea butter soap would be "Castile."

I don't believe the lawsuit addressed additives, but given the ruling, it likely would not matter what additives were included to this version of "Castile" soap. After all, that company adds all kinds of different EOs to their "Castile" soap.

"Bastille" is a term coined by, and generally used only by soapers, to refer to a majority OO soap with other oils, and possibly additives. I don't believe most non-soapers would know what you meant by that term.

Yeah, they definitely muddled the waters quitea bit.

My question of sorts is, does the addition of other things,but still remaining ONLY olive oil, change what it is? I've always understood the idea of "bastille" because of other oils added. The question now becomes, do additives also turn it into "bastille"?

 

[ackosel]

I've been wondering, too. I made some soap with 75% olive oil and 25% goat tallow with 100% water replaced with goat milk. I called it bastille, but maybe it's just "goatstille"?

 

[Nonnie]

I've been wondering, too. I made some soap with 75% olive oil and 25% goat tallow with 100% water replaced with goat milk. I called it bastille, but maybe it's just "goatstille"?

Goatee soap!

I've been wondering, too. I made some soap with 75% olive oil and 25% goat tallow with 100% water replaced with goat milk. I called it bastille, but maybe it's just "goatstille"?

 

[AliOop]

If you switched it to be 75% goat tallow and 25% OO, made with goat milk, that would be a winner in my book!

 

[ackosel]

If you switched it to be 75% goat tallow and 25% OO, made with goat milk, that would be a winner in my book!

I'll try that sometime, after butchering season. Soap calculators say that goat tallow is twice as cleansing/bubbly as beef tallow, so that should make for a decent lathering soap without any coconut oil. The 75%OO soap I made never did get very much lather, though I think it only cured for a couple months.

 

[AliOop]

I'll try that sometime, after butchering season. Soap calculators say that goat tallow is twice as cleansing/bubbly as beef tallow, so that should make for a decent lathering soap without any coconut oil. The 75%OO soap I made never did get very much lather, though I think it only cured for a couple months.

If you try it, let me know!

 

[Chaiat5]

I still prefer to use Castile to refer only to 100% OO soap. But that company-which-shall-not-be-named won the lawsuit and the right to use the term "Castile" for any liquid or bar soap made with plant-based oils. Under that definition, a 100% shea butter soap would be "Castile."

I don't believe the lawsuit addressed additives, but given the ruling, it likely would not matter what additives were included to this version of "Castile" soap. After all, that company adds all kinds of different EOs to their "Castile" soap.

"Bastille" is a term coined by, and generally used only by soapers, to refer to a majority OO soap with other oils, and possibly additives. I don't believe most non-soapers would know what you meant by that term.

I'm not sure if the company you're alluding to is the same one I found while researching Castile soap. It confused me because it contained so many different oils. I'd always thought Castile was 100% olive (even before learning how to make soap!). I do remember reading their labels (online... we don't get that brand here or in Singapore) and found it a bit manic — it quoted a poem by Rudyard Kipling (but not 100% true to the text, I think), advice and something about God's spaceship.

 

[Chaiat5]

Oh... so this is a local company here in Pakistan. While they do acknowledge the origins of "Castile Soap", they have taken a looser definition too: "Chiltanpure Castile Liquid Soap, originally named after the olive-oil based soaps from Castile-Spain. Chiltanpure Castile liquid soap is made from olive oil and a variety of other oils, all of which are plant or vegetable-derived. (Coconut, hemp, almond and walnut oil are present in Chiltanpure Castile liquid soap)."

I guess this alternate definition is more common than I had thought.

 

[Ekuzo]

I've been wondering, too. I made some soap with 75% olive oil and 25% goat tallow with 100% water replaced with goat milk. I called it bastille, but maybe it's just "goatstille"?

Definitely make a 300g bar and call it Goatzilla!!!


I just wanted to add to the thread, the consensus is that the so called bastille soap contains at least 70% OO, but with the lines so blurred right now I don't think people even care anymore... if you have enough money and patience you may one day be able to market genetically modified kittens as puppies lol

15-20 years ago there was white 'cheese' sold out here that contained lots of vegetable oils, and it was still called cheese. It took time and effort before those products were stripped off that right and are now called 'cheese imitating delicacy/substitute' or something similar. I know with so many different cheese products available now some may say that's not a problem, but we have a strong and old tradition here, it just needs to be done properly - meaning no PO. Same with castile, I guess

 

[ackosel]

Goatzilla, I like that!

 

[Nonnie]

I'm not sure if the company you're alluding to is the same one I found while researching Castile soap. It confused me because it contained so many different oils. I'd always thought Castile was 100% olive (even before learning how to make soap!). I do remember reading their labels (online... we don't get that brand here or in Singapore) and found it a bit manic — it quoted a poem by Rudyard Kipling (but not 100% true to the text, I think), advice and something about God's spaceship.

Myyoungdaughtersaid something similar. "This is so random and has nothing to do with soap." I said yep, marketing ploy.

Goatzilla, I like that!

I second the Goatzilla bar lol

Definitely make a 300g bar and call it Goatzilla!!!


I just wanted to add to the thread, the consensus is that the so called bastille soap contains at least 70% OO, but with the lines so blurred right now I don't think people even care anymore... if you have enough money and patience you may one day be able to market genetically modified kittens as puppies lol

15-20 years ago there was white 'cheese' sold out here that contained lots of vegetable oils, and it was still called cheese. It took time and effort before those products were stripped off that right and are now called 'cheese imitating delicacy/substitute' or something similar. I know with so many different cheese products available now some may say that's not a problem, but we have a strong and old tradition here, it just needs to be done properly - meaning no PO. Same with castile, I guess

Don't be hating on Velveeta lmbo.

But you're probably right that no one cares as long as it says "castille" on it

 

[AliOop]

I'm not sure if the company you're alluding to is the same one I found while researching Castile soap. It confused me because it contained so many different oils. I'd always thought Castile was 100% olive (even before learning how to make soap!). I do remember reading their labels (online... we don't get that brand here or in Singapore) and found it a bit manic — it quoted a poem by Rudyard Kipling (but not 100% true to the text, I think), advice and something about God's spaceship.

Yup, that is the one. When I tried to read their entire label, it felt like I fell down the rabbit hole (reference to Alice In Wonderland)... lots of words, not much in the way of intelligible communication. Some apparently find it charming or whimsical. To me, it seemed like it was written under the influence of psychedelic substances.

 

[Shelley D]

I've been wondering, too. I made some soap with 75% olive oil and 25% goat tallow with 100% water replaced with goat milk. I called it bastille, but maybe it's just "goatstille"?

That could be the soap's name! What a conversation starter turn selling point!

 

[Shelley D]

Just my 2¢ but I'm a purest when it comes to this type of terminology. The term Castile, just like Aleppo, indicates something very specific ~ and the court that decided otherwise is just plain ignorant to that fact. It's a specific reference to a specific type of soap made a specific way to result in a specific finished product. And there are still people out there that say, My grandmother swore by Castile soap for (fill in the blank). So people go looking for Castile soap for a reason and now they are being mislead. Someone somewhere just wanted to get away with sticking a tag on a product for advertising appeal, and someone else who knew better tried to tell them what's what so they took it to court.
I find this is a huge issue in another one of my hobbies/interests, stones and crystals. I honestly believe people are manufacturing glass in the shape of crystals (as in clear rock crystal, which technically, is rarely clear due to flaws or exposure to air), that is absolutely crystal clear (pun intended), you can literally read through them. They call a regular piece of rock crystal a Herkimer diamond (which it's not), and so on. It's all just buzz words anymore

 

[DeeAnna]

Castile originally meant 100% olive oil soap from the Castile region of Spain. Then castile evolved to mean any 100% olive oil soap made anywhere in the world. For over 100 years, the legal and commercial definition of castile soap, however, is soap made only with only vegetable fats with or without any olive oil.

Read the 1932 court case of James S. Kirk and Co. (of Kirk's Castile fame) vs the United States if you want to know the background behind this shift from defining castile soap as made from only olive oil to made with any veg oil.

To clarify an important point, the court did NOT define "castile" to mean veg oil soap. Evidence was presented to the court to show that the word castile was widely understood by consumers (for over 100 years at the time of the court case) to mean any veg oil soap, not just an olive oil soap. The court simply recognized this fact. As a result, Kirk of Kirk's Castile fame won the case and the company was allowed to continue to call their veg oil soap a castile.

A bastile soap is pretty much whatever you want it to be. The term not been around for long -- if I recall correctly, Cathy McGinnis of Soaping 101 popularized the term maybe 15-20 years ago, although I don't know if she was the person who came up with the idea.

I know some people insist a bastile recipe has to be at least 70% or 80% olive, but other people are a lot more flexible in the % of olive in their "bastiles". In addition to that, I'm seeing some people making soap with tallow or lard and calling them bastilles. So IMO the word doesn't have a clear, useful meaning.

I try hard to just say what's in the soap. That way people don't have to guess.

 

[Nonnie]

The infamous ZNSC is done

 

[KiwiMoose]

Read the 1932 court case of James S. Kirk and Co. (of Kirk's Castile fame) vs the United States if you want to know the background behind this shift from defining castile soap as made from only olive oil to made with any veg oil.

So that's not James T Kirk of 'Trekstille' fame? Maybe @TashaBird might know?