Castille soap constantly getting DOS

[AshleyR]

I have made 5 or 6 big batches of castille 100% olive oil soap now, and EVERY single one of them has gotten DOS at around 3 months.

All of them came from various brands and bottles of fresh olive oil. I can't for the life of me figure out why they keep going bad!

I know it definitely is DOS, because the soap takes on a stinky rancid smell, while also getting the orange spots.

I have used the same olive oil in other soap recipes, and those soaps didn't get DOS.

Why is this happening??

I usually SF all my soaps by 5%-7%. If I were to not do any SF at all, would that decrease the likeliness of the soap getting DOS?

I'm actually scared to make another batch because I just know it is going to go bad. I think next time I do attempt it - I'm going to add some sort of preservative.

Any idea why this is happening?

Also, would it be beneficial for me to get a dehumidifier for my soap room? My soaps cure on a rack in my basement that is pretty damp in the summer. I have noticed some of the soaps sweating. I think I'm going to get one today!

 

[Rosey]

I'm not sure Ashley and DOS is what's keeping me from making a 100% OO soap but I was wondering how long does it take it to develop DOS?

 

[carebear]

Castile is absolutely DOS prone - and your level of superfat won't help (according to the Caveman Chemist). A dehumidifier might help if you have high humidity in your curing area, and blocking the sunlight could help a lot too as that promots oxidation.

Other things you can try: soaping with distilled water, addding an anti-oxidant (Sodium Citrate + BHT is the most effective I believe), keeping your curing area cool.

 

[Saltysteele]

okay, keep in mind i'm still relatively a newbie, and these are questions, not suggestions.

isn't DOS from fats going rancid? if so, wouldn't NOT superfatting work to prevent DOS, in that there would be no fats that are not saponified, to go rancid?

i'm still trying to wrap my fat head around this DOS business :?

 

[AshleyR]

okay, keep in mind i'm still relatively a newbie, and these are questions, not suggestions.

isn't DOS from fats going rancid? if so, wouldn't NOT superfatting work to prevent DOS, in that there would be no fats that are not saponified, to go rancid?

i'm still trying to wrap my fat head around this DOS business :?

That's what I was thinking too.... since they always say you don't need a preservative in soap.

 

[carebear]

okay, keep in mind i'm still relatively a newbie, and these are questions, not suggestions.

isn't DOS from fats going rancid? if so, wouldn't NOT superfatting work to prevent DOS, in that there would be no fats that are not saponified, to go rancid?

i'm still trying to wrap my fat head around this DOS business :?

That's what I was thinking too.... since they always say you don't need a preservative in soap.

First off - you don't need what we typically consider a "preservative" in soaps (although antioxidants do fall under the broad category of preservatives, the word "preservative" typically applies to components which protect against living things like molds & bacteria) due to the high pH.

DOS is rancidity, yes. But you cannot do a zero superfat soap unless you have some way of measuring the actual SAP of your oils (remember, the SAP of natural oils fall into a RANGE) or the actual free lye in your soaps. Even if you use the lye calculator to calculate a 0% superfat you are likely to get either a lye heavy soap or one with excess oils anyway - and you won't be able to predict which you will get (hitting the SAP exactly on the mark for you oil is a pretty narrow margin of error!) Plus it won't be as gentle - even olive oil soap.

I'll have to go back and re-read the Caveman Chemist's thing on all this, but he did some experiments comparing 0% SF soaps and 5% SF soaps (I think) and found that while the selection of oils was an important factor, the SF wasn't. This only make sense to ME if I take into account the above paragraph, but there may be more to the chemistry than I understand (ok there is SURELY more to it than I understand).

 

[AshleyR]

Thanks for all the info, carebear!!

I wonder how other people who sell their soaps are able to sell castille? Especially wholesale orders.... they must put something in them so that they don't go bad if it's so prone to DOS! I have never sold any of my castille bars because I noticed they were getting DOS quickly after my second and third batch. Right now I don't think I'd dare to sell it because I just KNOW it is going to get DOS if the person doesn't use it right away.

Maybe I'll just have to put a "best before" date on my castille soaps just to be extra safe.....

 

[Saltysteele]

speaking of them being used right away, do you think it would be a turn off for someone to buy a soap, if you mentioned it'd be a good idea to store in the fridge until they're ready to start using it?

 

[MikeInPdx]

Personally, when I start selling, I don't plan on selling pure Castile....just too much of a headache.

 

[TheSoapyEwe]

okay, keep in mind i'm still relatively a newbie, and these are questions, not suggestions.

isn't DOS from fats going rancid? if so, wouldn't NOT superfatting work to prevent DOS, in that there would be no fats that are not saponified, to go rancid?

i'm still trying to wrap my fat head around this DOS business :?

saponified oils can go rancid, just because they're saponified doesn't mean that they wont fall prey to oxidation which leads to DOS.

On soap calc the numbers for castille are 82-Iodine and 109 for INS.....to me that has DOS written ALL over it.

Just my opinion but------
I have often wondered why even make castille, I know it has a history, is mild yada yada yada,but the talk of the slimy lather and the iodine numbers really have always turned me off to the whole "castile" hype.

 

[carebear]

Strangely, my castile takes about a year to develop DOS but I don't sell it for fear of DOS. And when I share my castiles I do so in small bars - usually I take a regular bar and cut it in quarters.

 

[AshleyR]

TheSoapyEwe.... I don't "fancy" the slimy lather either, and I know friends and family that have tried my soap want BUBBLES!!!

Thing is, I wanted to introduce a line of products for babies by Christmas (butt balm, etc.) and I thought it'd be great to put together some little sets, with castille soap.

I'm sure an unscented batch of my regular base recipe would be fine for babies - BUT I always see the "hype" about castille for babies... so I would have liked to be able to do it. I don't think I'll take the risk though.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I'm going to try making some very small batches of Castile soon. I haven't really had much interest in it so far but it's on the "to do" list. I've made Bastille with mostly Olive Oil and the rest coconut.

We had a problem here in Australia with imported Olive Oil where substitutions were occurring. Lab analysis showed that Canola (amongst other things) were being blended with Olive Oil. Just thought I'd throw it out there for consideration.

I got a Castile recipe from a lady in Portugal and when I plugged the figures into SoapMaker, it works out to a 1% lye discount.

 

[GoddessMama]

We have this problem in the US as well http://www.soapyhollow.com/deception-in ... rketplace/

This may be the culprite to your issues because I have castille soap that is 5 years old and still fine.

 

[TheSoapyEwe]

TheSoapyEwe.... I don't "fancy" the slimy lather either, and I know friends and family that have tried my soap want BUBBLES!!!

Thing is, I wanted to introduce a line of products for babies by Christmas (butt balm, etc.) and I thought it'd be great to put together some little sets, with castille soap.

I'm sure an unscented batch of my regular base recipe would be fine for babies - BUT I always see the "hype" about castille for babies... so I would have liked to be able to do it. I don't think I'll take the risk though.

If you do a search on google using the words-- baby skin gentle butters oils
tons of links come up with shea, mango and cocoa butter links, I even found one that has balms, lotions soaps , the whole line centered around babies.
I do know that I've read some people can be sensitive to shea, but that's really with anyone, sensitivity or allergies will always exist no matter what.

I like this recipe for a very nourishing gentle bar:
cocoa-40%
shea-25%
castor-20%
mango-10%
olive-5%

Hardness 42
Cleansing 0
Conditioning 58
Bubbly 18
Creamy 60
Iodine 56
INS 131

I know that the cleasing # is 0 but it will clean the dirt will be picked up by the oils and butters and washed away.

100% lard soap only has a cleansing # of 1 and we all know it's history for cleaning

 

[AshleyR]

Thanks for that recipe! I just might try it! Would make a really hard bar with all that cocoa too.....

 

[IrishLass]

We had a problem here in Australia with imported Olive Oil where substitutions were occurring. Lab analysis showed that Canola (amongst other things) were being blended with Olive Oil. Just thought I'd throw it out there for consideration.

We have this problem in the US as well http://www.soapyhollow.com/deception-in ... rketplace/

Very true. I've read of soapers who bought 'olive' oil for quite a bargain price at certain discount stores, but they actually turned out to be hybrid mixes of olive and canola. :twisted:

Re: 100% Castile, I'm thinking that humidity just might be the tipping factor in whether or not they DOS. I live in a bone-dry climate, and so far my 100% Castiles have never gotten DOS. My oldest 100% Castile is 1 year and 9 months old now, with egg yolk in it no less (superfatted at 5%), and it's still holding up just fine- even one of the bars that I let sit in a dish by the sink and wash with every now and then.

IrishLass

 

[xraygrl]

There was a gal on here that was doing some experimentation with certain antioxidants like adding honey....which BTW, I did have one HP batch that I had split up, half I added honey to make an OMH soap, and the other half was just colored and scented. The half with the honey has no signs of DOS several months later, but the other half of that batch went in the trash after about 3 months due to rancidity....This batch had about 50% lard, 40% canola, and 10% coconut.

Another thing she was experimenting with was subbing the water certain teas that have antioxidants in them, and I beleive she was getting good results from them as well. I wish I could remember the thread, it was a pretty interesting read....

 

[dagmar88]

I have a very dry space to cure my soap and in over two years haven't encountered any DOS at all (yet). But it could also be my location; my oil is freshly imported from Italy... My recipe:
95% olive oil
5% castor
sugar & silk
5% water discount (to 33%)

 

[Ollieblue]

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