Can we please talk about super fat?

[jblaney]

Ok, so I know a little about super fatting and I wanted to see if what I understood was correct and also if you more experienced soapers could give their thoughts and experiences. Please tell me if I am wrong on my assertions about the affects of super fatting your CP soap.

I have gone through a period where I soaped with a high super fat of 8.5% and now I'm reformulating to a lower one since I had some of the cons listed below. I'm aware that all of what I have observed is very dependent on the recipe, but I'm generalizing here. Gotta start somewhere. Also, I'm not talking about Salt bars since I don't make those.

High Superfat​

Pros: Makes a more conditioning soap and may offset the drying affects of coconut, PKO and Babbasu oil. (Depending on your formula)

Con: Tends to make the soap softer and get mushier when used, especially if the soap gets used multiple times in a short period of time.

Con: Can prohibit lather, may need to add more lathering oils to offset this.

Con: Can cause DOS or the bar could go rancid and start to smell like rancid oil.

Con: Can leave an oily feeling on the skin.

Low Superfat​

Pros: Soap may lather easier since less free oils to prohibit it.

Pros: May be able to use lower % of lathering oils (pko, coconut & babassu)

Pros: May make a longer lasting soap in the shower and prolong the shelf life of the soap.

Con: May make a more drying soap if it's not formulated correctly

 

[girlishcharm2004]

Another con to high superfat: can clog drains more easily.

 

[cmzaha]

My plumbing behaves much better since I lowered my superfat %, and I simply do not like wahsing with oil, I superfat from 1-3% except salt bars which I superfat at 18%. If I remember correctly Kevin Dunn did not find superfatting adding to dos. He found only using roe helped slow dos. In the superfat swap I participated in every soap including the very low superfat soap developed dos. I think the humidy we were having this summer contributed to the dos

 

[CaraBou]

No arguments from me. It's a matter of preference but these are all things to consider.

 

[Consuela]

I super fat between 3 and 5 which seems to work well with our water here. I've done 8 and didn't like it at all. And yes dos for sure, is what I got.

But salt bars I SF at 10, and that also works well here.

 

[Ruthie]

Depending on how low your superfat goes, you must also be careful to measure extremely precisely as you do not want to end up with leftover lye that had nothing to saponify.

 

[DWinMadison]

I saw the title of this post and thought it was about me. Whew!

 

[DWinMadison]

I generally use 5% super fat. It provides a bit of a safety edge a little margin of error against a lye-heavy bar, but I can't perceive any oily residual in the bars. I'll knock it down to zero for heavily colored bars if emulsifying the color in extra/additional oil. My typical recipe is 47 oz of oil. For example, if I use 3 colors and premix them in 1oz of oil each, that's 6% super fat right there. The other alrernative is to pull some of the oils already in the recipe, but they are sometimes too thick for premixing colors.

For the anal retentive among us, you could recalculate the above recipe to account for the specific oil (e.g. sweet almond) used to mix your color then decide on the range of super fat you REALLY want.

 

[lenarenee]

You may also want to consider the purity level of your lye as well. When I have lye that's 99% pure, I use a higher sf, and a lower sf with a lye that's 95%.

 

[Obsidian]

11 months ago I made a test batch with 20% SF just to see if I would encounter any of the issues people speak of. As of today, there is no DOS, the soap lathers just fine and the bars are plenty hard. My skin doesn't feel oily per say but more like I have used a light lotion a number of hours ago. I quite like the bar and am hoping that it will help with my terrible winter dry skin.

This is my recipe if anyone is interested
http://www.evernote.com/shard/s216/...2c95dd8a7f66/67ce973d8493f0e573eb4883f468cbc8

 

[jblaney]

girlishcharm2004 - I forgot that one! Add one more con to the pile.

lenarenee - Where do you get your lye from? I get mine from Essential Depot, but lately I noticed it's getting a scum on the top that I don't think I used to get. I'm using distilled water but it's still happening.

 

[lenarenee]

I've used Amazons Red Devil, (my favorite), essential depot, a hardware brand, and currently Brambleberrys new flakes (only two batches, both water discounted but came out extremely soft. If the third one comes out soft I'm going to blame the lye. Our 7 year old used some to make a "clay" pinch pot for her art teacher!)

I've had scum from all lye floating on top. We have reverse osmosis water. It didn't seem to have any affect on the soaps though. I've had a couple theories about what causes it, but think I've proven them wrong.

 

[cmzaha]

girlishcharm2004 - I forgot that one! Add one more con to the pile.

lenarenee - Where do you get your lye from? I get mine from Essential Depot, but lately I noticed it's getting a scum on the top that I don't think I used to get. I'm using distilled water but it's still happening.

If you are talking about the crust that forms on the top of your lye solution it is sodium carbonate, aka washing soda. It will not harm anything. A crust on the bottom of the container is a different story it is usually hardened lye which is not good. Any lye in my experience will for sodium carbonate on the top especially if the container sits open for awhile until you are ready to use it.
Blaney if you are ever around Santa Ana, Gallade Chem is located there. They have 99% lye for around 48.00 per 50 lbs. They do sell smaller amounts but of course the bulk in a bag is the cheapest and you can will call. They also have a plant in Fontana.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

OP, I stopped using high SF because of the few cons listed. I hated mushy bars, oily feel after shower and lack of lather. I didn't have as much problems with DOS but I did notice faint oily smell (like as in OO smell etc.) on hands and skin after shower that I also didn't like.
I use coconut milk as 50% of liquid and with 5% SF I used before my SF was probably above 7%. I now soap with 2% and I'm really happy with the look and performance of my soaps.

 

[jblaney]

Cmzaha- thanks for the lye recommendation. I def. need to get it cheaper and somewhere I can pick it up myself. How do you store your lye if you buy in bulk? Do you repackage? I know moisture can be an issue.

Good to know the crust on top is not a problem.

 

[newbie]

I use 5%. I don't find higher to be helpful to me but everyone finds their preference based on their skin.

I did the SF swap too but only one soap developed full-on DOS. The rest of them are doing fine, even the 28% SF one. I would think the environment makes quite a difference.

When I get a lot of lye (essential depot), I buy the 2 pound bottles and I leave them wrapped in the bag and in the box they come in, for extra protection. They come out of bag and box one at a time. I would wonder how much exposure a big supply of lye had to moisture in the air if I opened a big bag frequently to get what I needed. If you got a bag, it would make sense to split it into plastic tubs that have well-sealing lids and then use only one at a time.

 

[IrishLass]

My superfat depends completely on what kinds of oils/fats I am using in whatever particular formula I'm making. My lowest superfat is 3% and my highest is 20%. The others are in between at 6%, 8% and 13%. My bars are never soft/gushy or overly oily-feeling to me.

To rephrase a saying that the real estate people use- "formulation, formulation, formulation" (instead of "location, location, location"). Much depends on the formula.

IrishLass

 

[DWinMadison]

girlishcharm2004 - I forgot that one! Add one more con to the pile.

lenarenee - Where do you get your lye from? I get mine from Essential Depot, but lately I noticed it's getting a scum on the top that I don't think I used to get. I'm using distilled water but it's still happening.

I just called a chemical supply house in my city and they sell it for $1/lb. Only thing is I have to buy a minimum of 50 lbs. I have a few soapy friends I can share it with.

 

[Earthen_Step]

I'm super phat!

Sorry, I've been wanting to say that since this thread popped up...

 

[DWinMadison]

Cmzaha- thanks for the lye recommendation. I def. need to get it cheaper and somewhere I can pick it up myself. How do you store your lye if you buy in bulk? Do you repackage? I know moisture can be an issue.

Good to know the crust on top is not a problem.

I'm going to repackage it and add those silica dry-packs like you get n shipped items. I believe they are available at Home Depot and Lowe's.