Can Stearic Spots appear after cutting bars?

[stanekster]

Hello,
I am struggling to figure out what I am doing wrong here. I am making some goat milk soap but I keep getting white spots showing up and ruining the design of the bars. The spots usually appear after 12-24 hours after I cut the loaves. I was wondering if it is possible for stearic spots to appear this late in the process (not there when I initially cut)? Anybody have any ideas for my tiny brain?

What I know/have tried:
-Zap test the spots and no zap at all.
-Washed to bars and it is not ash (seems to go much further into bar).
-I don't think it is air bubbles cause i am careful when I stick blend, but thinking if air the spots would appear as I cut...not 12 hours later.
-I have heated oils to 98F, lye to 100F, Milk to 85F, and left essential oils at room temp (76F). I have even soaped at higher temps for oils 100-105F for all the ingredients, but I am trying to avoid gelling so keeping these temps.
-The spots appear even in bars with partial gel (but not in the gelled part)
-I am trying to avoid gelling since it weakens the scent of the EOs and we like softer bars.
-I put the molds in freezer as I make the soap, then remove them right before pouring. I pour and then put the soap in freezer for 24 hrs or so. I then let them get to room temp and when they appear to be hard enough, I cut the bars.
-Again, when I cut the bars, the spots are NOT there
-After 12 hours or so after cutting they appear and I start banging my head against the wall.
-Attached photos of bars pre and post spots

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
thanks in advance,
steven

 

[The_Phoenix]

What stage was your batter when you poured? Emulsion? Light trace? Medium trace?

 

[stanekster]

What stage was your batter when you poured? Emulsion? Light trace? Medium trace?

I have done maybe 10 different batches... most were light to medium trace after stick blending (what I prefer). But others were thicker due to EOs that accelerated trace (clove, etc)....or involved multiple colors so stick-blended more. All of them had the white spots unless they gelled through the whole way.

 

[paradisi]

Looks like efflorescence . Are you using a mineral additive?

 

[stanekster]

The colorants were green mica and activated charcoal. The white is not shiny, but a dull white if that helps. And in other soap I made with no colorants, the same thing happened.

 

[The_Phoenix]

Are you saying heated your fats up to a maximum of 98 degrees to melt? What solids fats do you use?

 

[stanekster]

Oh right, sorry I forgot that info....
Olive oil (37%), Castor oil (12%) I leave those at room temp (76F). Then I heat the solid oils of Palm oil (30%), Palm kernel oil (10%), and coconut oil (11%). I then combine all the oils and let them cool until they are 97F or 98F after mixed together. Then I add the lye and other additives.

 

[The_Phoenix]

How hot do you get your solid fats to when you melt them?

 

[stanekster]

Solid fats usually get up to around 130- 135F when I heat them up alone. Then I mix them with liquid fats that are around 74-76F.

 

[The_Phoenix]

Try heating the solid fats up to around 160-180 and see if you get different results.

 

[Ford]

Spots are there in first photo. Just not as prononouced. The little bit of drying. Over that period of time. Makes them stand out more. Goat milk at 85 degrees? Did you get any scorching? In your milk? I wanna say fats. Causing this.

 

[stanekster]

Try heating the solid fats up to around 160-180 and see if you get different results.

@The_Phoenix just so I understand, I heat up solid fats up to 170ish. Then mix with the liquid fats, then let them cool to 97F… then proceed as normal?

 

[stanekster]

Spots are there in first photo. Just not as prononouced. The little bit of drying. Over that period of time. Makes them stand out more. Goat milk at 85 degrees? Did you get any scorching? In your milk? I wanna say fats. Causing this.

@Ford in past I used to heat goat milk only to 70F, but I increased the temp to 85F thinking maybe pouring in the milk was too cool and causing solid fats to solidify. So I raised its temp to see if it helped….it did not. I put the goat milk in the freezer immediately after pouring… so that helps I believe.

 

[stanekster]

One more ingredient I forgot to mention…. I use Sodiun Citrate in small quantity. I dissolve this into a small bit of heated water to dissolve. Then add it to lye solution.

 

[The_Phoenix]

@The_Phoenix just so I understand, I heat up solid fats up to 170ish. Then mix with the liquid fats, then let them cool to 97F… then proceed as normal?

Correct.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I reckon it's just soda ash becoming more apparent over a few days - the spots were there, but they became more pronounced. Unless it's just the different lighting - the bars definitely look more ashy in the second photo.

 

[stanekster]

@KiwiMoose I do not believe the spots are ash. I have done over 8 batches with this problem and washing them off (even more-so than polishing) the spots do not go away. I even got mad once and tried to rub it with toothbrush under water to get rid of them for a long time. The spots run much deeper than ash into the bar itself.

I just made a new batch this morning to try @The_Phoenix 's suggestion of heating solid fats to 165F. So in a day or two I can give results of that test.

 

[Ford]

Are they spots? Or long horizontal lines. Thru the length of the loaf. That look like spots when cut. Just another way of looking at it? So, what's causing long streaks in your loafs?? Oh, they seem to follow the hanger swirl.
Stearic lines?

 

[stanekster]

Ok, so I made another batch. This time I heated solid oils up to 165F, added the liquid oils in and let it cool to 98F. My lye solution was 96F, and both my EO and Milk was at 76F. I was very excited to cut the bars and see what was going to be there. I am happy to report that the bars look much better (see below). I still see some spots when cut and they look a little better after 24hours. Overall much improved... I am wondering if I can get rid of remaining spots by trying one or all of these:

• Heat the milk and EOs to 85F and try that.
• Do not put molds in freezer before pouring soup into them.
• Or maybe I just need to heat the palm fats a little more to 175F?

 

[The_Phoenix]

Yay! That’s great! I heat my solid fats (lard, palm, cocoa butter, tallow, etc.) pretty hot. I sometimes see peole say that they “gently” heat their oils. I’m not sure where the idea came from that fats are fragile. They are not. When I melt mine they can get up to 200 degrees. And they’re just fine in the resulting soap.