Can someone help asap!

[DanyulMac]

Ok so ive tried 2 batches of lye based soap now and none of them thicken at all!!! I really dont know what im doing wrong! All im using is olive oil and coconut oil basic right? First batch the oil just separated and the 2nd light creamy water

 

[Saponificarian]

Is this liquid soap or Bar soap? Did you run it through a calculator? Did you use a stick blender? You need to provide more information with your full recipe, Water and lye amounts.

 

[DanyulMac]

Is this liquid soap or Bar soap? Did you run it through a calculator? Did you use a stick blender? You need to provide more information with your full recipe, Water and lye amounts.

Its a recipe i followed on youtube, to make bar soap i check all the temperatures and yes i did use a blender?

259g Water
113g lye
498 olive oil
280g coconut oil

 

[cmzaha]

Are you sure you are using 100% NaOH? Where did you purchase your Lye (NaOH) and are you sure it is not KOH (Potassium Hydroxide)? Even with KOH, which is used for liquid soap paste you should get a trace.

With your percentage of OO it can be slow to trace just keep pulsing with the stick blender and if still stubborn let it rest, SB, rest, SB until you get a nice trace.

 

[DanyulMac]

Are you sure you are using 100% NaOH? Where did you purchase your Lye (NaOH) and are you sure it is not KOH (Potassium Hydroxide)? Even with KOH, which is used for liquid soap paste you should get a trace.

With your percentage of OO it can be slow to trace just keep pulsing with the stick blender and if still stubborn let it rest, SB, rest, SB until you get a nice trace.

I got my Lye/ causic soda from my hardware store B&Q ive read other forums online and many people use it in the UK and worked for them, it looks like this

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Can we see the back of it?

 

[DanyulMac]

Can we see the back of it?

States nothing else other than sodium hydroxide

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

It should be okay, and the recipe checks out for the lye amount. How were you using the stick blender?

 

[DanyulMac]

It should be okay, and the recipe checks out for the lye amount. How were you using the stick blender?

Sits not a stick blender as per say more of a hand mixer, didnt think this would be such a problem but my next batch im doing later and getting an old stick blender from my mum

 

[cmzaha]

You could call the helpline and see if you can find out the purity of your caustic soda. A mixer will incorporate to much air in the batter and is not anywhere near a high enough shear for mixing soap. You can stir the batter let it rest stir rest...until you get trace. Stick Blenders with their high shear really cut down on stir time

 

[psfred]

Hand mixer will require a very long time to emulsify -- keep stirring! This will probably take several hours, just as if you were using a spoon.

The stick blender emulsifies the lye and oil much faster, which makes for faster soapmaking.

Your first batches may or may not make soap if you re-emulsify them, you may have lost too much of the lye to carbon dioxide in the air. As noted, this will take some hours with a hand mixer, but it should work as long as the lye is still lye and not sodium carbonate.

I strongly recommend getting a stick blender pronto.

And one more note: use stainless steel or plastic containers for soapmaking -- lye WILL etch glass, especially if it is not borosilicate glass. PYREX is now a trademark, not an indication of the use of borosilicate glass. Tempered glass is very prone to shattering once it's scratched, hence the too common occurance of "pyrex" glass bakeware shattering when exposed to sharp temperature gradients and soapmaking glassware shattering in use. Borosilicate glass was removed from commerce in the 80's due to the very unlikely possibility of leaching boron into food (unless you tend to make strongly alkaline food, the boron stays put) and anything labeled "pyrex" since then is plain silicate glass. The very last thing you need when making soap is to have a glass bowl shatter when it's full of fresh lye.....

 

[DanyulMac]

Hand mixer will require a very long time to emulsify -- keep stirring! This will probably take several hours, just as if you were using a spoon.

The stick blender emulsifies the lye and oil much faster, which makes for faster soapmaking.

Your first batches may or may not make soap if you re-emulsify them, you may have lost too much of the lye to carbon dioxide in the air. As noted, this will take some hours with a hand mixer, but it should work as long as the lye is still lye and not sodium carbonate.

I strongly recommend getting a stick blender pronto.

And one more note: use stainless steel or plastic containers for soapmaking -- lye WILL etch glass, especially if it is not borosilicate glass. PYREX is now a trademark, not an indication of the use of borosilicate glass. Tempered glass is very prone to shattering once it's scratched, hence the too common occurance of "pyrex" glass bakeware shattering when exposed to sharp temperature gradients and soapmaking glassware shattering in use. Borosilicate glass was removed from commerce in the 80's due to the very unlikely possibility of leaching boron into food (unless you tend to make strongly alkaline food, the boron stays put) and anything labeled "pyrex" since then is plain silicate glass. The very last thing you need when making soap is to have a glass bowl shatter when it's full of fresh lye.....

Yeah ive read about using plastic or stainless steel so i chose plastic as its cheaper but that for all the info, just when i thought id done enough research it got the better of me, im making another batch in a couple of hours using a stick blender *fingers crossed* another thing i want to ask is temps of oil and lye water to mix them i had the oils at 80 odd and my lye water between 120-140 is that ok?

 

[psfred]

Should be. Olive oil is slow to saponify. A little cooler won't hurt though for your first soaps -- unless your goal is to get the soap into the mold as fast as possible slower soaping is better for learning!

 

[Rune]

Okey, the first batch I made, I used my standmixer, since I did not have a stickblender. I made a 100% olive oil soap, and I had to mix it on the highest setting for 3 hours! Yes, 3 hours. I maybe could have stopped before, but I needed to make sure I had trace. And I tried a handmixer once. The soap did not come to trace, it was separated in oil and lye, just like in your picture, so I added more lye (because then I thought the lye would be neutralized) and it came to trace (but was lye-heavy and had to be thrown away). So with a handmixer, you will have to mix it for ages at no less than maximum speed, but it will come to trace eventually. I suspect you have mixed for a long time, but not nearly as long as it requires with such tools. Maybe you should use a smaller bowl for safety, so that it doesn't splatter everywhere. A jug or something else that is narrow and deep instead of wide and shallow. It might be a more efficient mixing in a jug as well.

You can try placing the jug in a bowl of hot water while you mix, to heat up the soap a bit. That should in theory reduce mixing time, since heat speeds up saponification.

Maybe adding a tablespoon or two of vodka or other strong alcohol could help speed it up? I'm a beginner myself, so this advice you have to get verified by someone else, since it might do something very unwanted. So it is just a suggestion.

I have read that you can add some ground up soap to help with emulsification. So if you have a bar of soap, just ground up some of it and add it, and mix at full speed.

Or you could run out to a store that sells stickblenders, if you have such stores near by. A stickblender is the only thing that really works fast and efficient. But a handmixer or standmixer will make soap too, it just takes a very long time. But it is definately possible. Happy soaping!

 

[DanyulMac]

Okey, the first batch I made, I used my standmixer, since I did not have a stickblender. I made a 100% olive oil soap, and I had to mix it on the highest setting for 3 hours! Yes, 3 hours. I maybe could have stopped before, but I needed to make sure I had trace. And I tried a handmixer once. The soap did not come to trace, it was separated in oil and lye, just like in your picture, so I added more lye (because then I thought the lye would be neutralized) and it came to trace (but was lye-heavy and had to be thrown away). So with a handmixer, you will have to mix it for ages at no less than maximum speed, but it will come to trace eventually. I suspect you have mixed for a long time, but not nearly as long as it requires with such tools. Maybe you should use a smaller bowl for safety, so that it doesn't splatter everywhere. A jug or something else that is narrow and deep instead of wide and shallow. It might be a more efficient mixing in a jug as well.

You can try placing the jug in a bowl of hot water while you mix, to heat up the soap a bit. That should in theory reduce mixing time, since heat speeds up saponification.

Maybe adding a tablespoon or two of vodka or other strong alcohol could help speed it up? I'm a beginner myself, so this advice you have to get verified by someone else, since it might do something very unwanted. So it is just a suggestion.

I have read that you can add some ground up soap to help with emulsification. So if you have a bar of soap, just ground up some of it and add it, and mix at full speed.

Or you could run out to a store that sells stickblenders, if you have such stores near by. A stickblender is the only thing that really works fast and efficient. But a handmixer or standmixer will make soap too, it just takes a very long time. But it is definately possible. Happy soaping!

We will see later, ive just got a stick mixer and will be trying it again soon, so i will post my 3rd batch!

 

[penelopejane]

Before you do anything else I’d ring the helpline and ask what percentage sodium hydroxide it is. It seems very strange not to put 98-100% on it if it is pure sodium hydroxide.

 

[DanyulMac]

Believe it or not the soap batch i made earlier i didnt throw away and has set ... im shocked

Believe it or not the soap batch i made earlier i didnt throw away and has set ... im shocked

Also i take it the bubbly stuff on top is lye?

 

[Rune]

Yes, definately do that. I googled sodium hydroxide here in Norway, just to see if I could find something cheaper than the one I buy at grocery store. I found cheaper at a hardware/carparts/household store, read the documents and it said "60-90% sodium hydroxide". Which is really bad. The one at grocery stores says: "sodium hydroxide > 99 %". Which is as pure as it can be. So yes, you need to find out if that sodium hydroxide you have is good enough for soaping. If it is a true and trusted brand amongst UK soapers, then I'm sure it is fine. Someone else have most probably found out already.

The soap you have in the mould, it looks slightly curdled. So it might not be okey after all. But I have definately not the experience to judge.

 

[DanyulMac]

Yes, definately do that. I googled sodium hydroxide here in Norway, just to see if I could find something cheaper than the one I buy at grocery store. I found cheaper at a hardware/carparts/household store, read the documents and it said "60-90% sodium hydroxide". Which is really bad. The one at grocery stores says: "sodium hydroxide > 99 %". Which is as pure as it can be. So yes, you need to find out if that sodium hydroxide you have is good enough for soaping. If it is a true and trusted brand amongst UK soapers, then I'm sure it is fine. Someone else have most probably found out already.

The soap you have in the mould, it looks slightly curdled. So it might not be okey after all. But I have definately not the experience to judge.

Well its only for my self so i guess i can only test it out after it fully dries, just see how it goes.

 

[Scotsoap]

I used to use B&Q Sodium Hydroxide when it WAS 99% pure and it worked very well. Since they changed the branding to Diall it is not the same product at all ! I lost 3 batches before I realised that it was the Sodium Hydroxide to blame. Each time my soap went granular immediately like sugar clumps, the clumps were the lye and there was no recovering from that. It didnt act at all how the previous stuff had, I think it is a low percentage and contains impurities, which is fine if you want to clean drains
After eliminating everything else as a cause of failure, I got some online from a soap supplies site, nice and pure and in 'pearls'. Its worth the effort of getting the good stuff Next batch worked a treat !
So I dont recommend the Diall product for soap making.