can I save this mistake??

[KarenHilt]

My partner and I made some shower gel from a base, FO was added too quickly and the emulsion broke. I would love to try to save this, but have not been able to "re-gel" it. So I thought maybe it could be the base to a HP soap. It is very watery and was wondering if I could use it as the water portion of the lye mixture, (knowing the FO would burn off), and then possibly continue on to an interesting bar soap.

Here are the ingredients... Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Lavandula angustifolia (Organic Lavender) Distillate, Anthemis nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Distillate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Hydrolyzed Wheat Proteins, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Rosa mosqueta (Rosehip) Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid.

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever tried something like this? Thanks all!

 

[carebear]

well maybe - you will essentially be adding a detergent to your soap

 

[southernheartsoaps]

The sodium lauryl sulfate... detergent... and known skin irritant... I'd be careful!

 

[KarenHilt]

I might try it just for the heck of it. You don't think it will explode or anything?? lol.

 

[KarenHilt]

Sorry to be picky, but the recipe does not contain SLS, it contains Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, very different, and not nearly as aggressive. Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate is derived from coconut and palm oils; a safe skin friendly surfactant (foaming agent) for both skin and hair.

just by the by.

 

[southernheartsoaps]

My bad... but a detergent nonetheless

 

[Hazel]

Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate isn't a detergent. It's a surfactant (plant derived organic salt which is why the first word is sodium) and it's very gentle for cleansing the skin. It's recommended for sensitive skin and makes lots of lather. It doesn't dry the skin and rinses off very easily.

I guess I should add that I'm being pickier than Karen.

southernheartsoaps -

I love your saying in your signature box. I think I've crossed the line. :wink:

 

[southernheartsoaps]

Unless my research shows inaccurate information... quote from first paragraph of the International Journal of Toxicology's report on the Safety Assessment of Sodium Laurly Sulfoacetate reads "Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate is a detergent used in cosmetic products." Here's the link
http://ijt.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/6/3/261

 

[carebear]

Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate isn't a detergent. It's a surfactant (plant derived organic salt which is why the first word is sodium) and it's very gentle for cleansing the skin. It's recommended for sensitive skin and makes lots of lather. It doesn't dry the skin and rinses off very easily.

I guess I should add that I'm being pickier than Karen.

southernheartsoaps -

I love your saying in your signature box. I think I've crossed the line. :wink:

It's still a detergent. Albeit a more gentle one. It's a semantics thing, though, so I'm not gonna keep going around on it. Detergents are surfactants. Soaps are surfactants.

I thinks SLSa is fine (tho heck, I think SLS is fine too).

I don't see anything wrong with adding it to a soap, though the reason many like handmade soap is the absence of detergents (synthetic, "derived form nature", whatever). I wouldn't personally add it to my soap because I just don't like the sound of it. But many commercial products are a blend of soaps and detergents and they do lather very well.

I don't know how cooking will impact the SLSa - I think it'll be fine if you don't burn it.

All I can think is that you might end up with a sticky final product, but that's just a guess.

SLSa (and SLS) are used in a slew of personal care products including shampoos and soaps, bodywashes, facial cleansers, bubble baths (hell, some brands of toothpaste contain them). Detergents are nothing to be afraid of - except for folks who are sensitive.

As for the first word "sodium" indicating it's derived form a plant source - well I just have to look kinda sideways out of a squinted eye and say "hunh"? Sodium choloride dances about in the front of my brain. Sodium hydroxide too... So I'm not getting that at all.

 

[Hazel]

Generally when the word detergent is used, my understanding is it is a reference to a synthetic cleansing agent. So, it is semantics.

The "sodium" doesn't have anything to do with the plants (palm and coconut). I mentioned it because Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate is an organic salt. I'm not a chemist so I can't tell you much about organic salts. I do know that we have to get them through food because our bodies need them for good health. Of course, I'm not a nutritionist, either; so I don't know anything on how the body uses them.

I did find an interesting article on Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate

http://essentialu.typepad.com/my_weblog ... etate.html

edited because of typo

 

[Hazel]

I should say some organic salts are needed by our bodies, not all of them.

 

[carebear]

Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate isn't a detergent. It's a surfactant (plant derived organic salt which is why the first word is sodium) and it's very gentle for cleansing the skin.

oh, then I must have misunderstood the bolded part (my bolding) which I interpreted as you saying that the word sodium in the first postion indicated that it was a plant derived organic salt.

 

[Hazel]

Unless my research shows inaccurate information... quote from first paragraph of the International Journal of Toxicology's report on the Safety Assessment of Sodium Laurly Sulfoacetate reads "Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate is a detergent used in cosmetic products." Here's the link
http://ijt.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/6/3/261

I apologize and you are correct. Whenever I see the word detergent, I always think of harsh synthetic cleansers and surfactants as more gentle cleansers. I've also haven't seen SLSa described as a detergent. I wonder how many other people have the same perception of the terms detergent and surfactant. I guess this is why I was trained to always use the term surfactant during a treatment. It sure sounds better to say that I'm using a surfactant as opposed to "Now I'm going to cleanse your face with a gentle detergent."

This is an interesting site. I started to enter some items in the search but it said I have to have a subscription to view the articles. Oh well...I guess I won't be reading anything on it.

 

[gekko62]

My partner and I made some shower gel from a base, FO was added too quickly and the emulsion broke. I would love to try to save this, but have not been able to "re-gel" it. So I thought maybe it could be the base to a HP soap. It is very watery and was wondering if I could use it as the water portion of the lye mixture, (knowing the FO would burn off), and then possibly continue on to an interesting bar soap.

Here are the ingredients... Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Lavandula angustifolia (Organic Lavender) Distillate, Anthemis nobilis (Roman Chamomile) Distillate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Calcium d-Pantothenate (Pro-Vitamin B5), Hydrolyzed Wheat Proteins, Simmondsia chinensis (Jojoba) Oil, Rosa mosqueta (Rosehip) Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid.

Any thoughts? Has anyone ever tried something like this? Thanks all!

What do you mean by the emulsion broke?What happened when you added the FO? Just I don't see anything in that ingredient list that says 'emulsion' to me. And it shouldn't 'break' with the addition of fo/eo. Some fo's & eo's don't play real well with surfactants & tend to float to the top,sort of a milky,curdy layer. And some make it real thin. Just curious here

 

[MagiaDellaLuna]

You could try heating it slowly ( or gently ) and then adding some pectin powder. That should gel it.

ETA
Add a little at a time. It does not really show it's effect until it has cooled completely, so adding too much will possibly result in it being too stiff.

You can always reheat and add a little more if needed.

 

[carebear]

wouldn't it have to be pretty acidic for the pectin to gel?

 

[MagiaDellaLuna]

wouldn't it have to be pretty acidic for the pectin to gel?

I have made gel with bar soap ( there is a loooooong thread with the results of various experiments)

http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=

I think it is worth a shot.

 

[carebear]

yes I remember that thread. didn't seem to work for a lot of folks (the idea made its way over to the Dish) but it's worth a shot.

yes, worth a shot.

 

[MagiaDellaLuna]

yes I remember that thread. didn't seem to work for a lot of folks (the idea made its way over to the Dish) but it's worth a shot.

yes, worth a shot.

I still have some of the gel/liquidy soap from those experiments and they have held their texture and consistency even after all these months.

The folk who were expecting true liquid soap may have been disappointed, but I have found the gel type results very useful as shampoo and handwash.
I have also thickened some batches with Xanthan Gum. Different result, but still quite useful.

 

[carebear]

oh yes, now I understand. liquid soap made from bar soap does tend to set up like jelly. i do think people thought that adding pectin was supposed to get us a liquid-liquid soap. thanks for clarifying!