By days end today...

[Dreams]

First off thank you for the except...I have been reading and reading till I think I understand something then I have myself all confused all over again...I havent made a batch yet cause I cant get my #to add up to where my palmitic +stearic to go above 20 to get a lasting bar or my lauric+myristic above 20 to get hard bar from what ive read...Im looking to make a soap that a woman would find gentle and moisturizing and a man to find the right amount of cleansing to where I have a one fits all or willing to do seprate open for anything and want to make a lotion bar also..my oils and butter I have to work with are evoo,oop,conola,coconut oil76,aloe vera oil,rice bran,castor,sunflower,soybean,grapeseed and shea butter...I dont want to use tallow,lard or palm..I have tried to configurate a few recipes on soapcalc but keep getting stuck...why? cause I decided I wanted to start a hobby to try and turn into a business to help with my depression and high functioning anxiety so one day candles came to mind but this is how my mind works..I was worried about getting the wick an container size right so it wouldnt break or to high flame and everything that could go wrong and would with me so I thought.. if i could learn cp soap making wicking a candle would be a heck of alot easier not sure the connection but thats my mind..cause I did want to branch off into soap after candles just doing it the other way around now..so I bought oils have been reading and will read till the cows come home and still be confused so BY DAY END TODAY I WILL MAKE MY FIRST BATCH with your help please .I dont like to ask for help so Im trying to learn that also..trying to learn cp is not helping my anxiety at all it is making it go haywire so I want to make today and get it over im not worried about the lye im worried about messing it up and wasting the oils but i know that apart of learning but it still hits the pocket..thank you for reading my ramble and for help im going to include a few pic of what i have caculated and any ifo would help or if you can come up with something from the oils above and the descriptions of what looking for would be greatly appreciate by me for my sanity thank you in advance View attachment 53072

 

[GemstonePony]

Welcome! First off, why the rush? I read for over a month before making soap. It's takes at least a year of consistent soap making to have reason for confidence in your methods, practice, and the quality of your results. It takes an of average 2-5 years of experimenting with ingredients and getting feedback to have something that will sell in your area, and a lot of the long time pros took far longer than that. It then takes more years to build a business with many repeat customers that will last. In short, attempting to rush it may be less expensive short term, but it's going to kill your business in the long term. Relax. Enjoy the journey. Settle in for the long haul. Soap making is a very highly saturated market, it'll take time for you to figure out your niche.

As far as guys vs gals, gals tend to have more sensitive skin. I prefer 15- 20% CO and that's been popular with the other ladies, but I know the guys on here tend to like it closer to the 25-35% range. There is no "perfect soap for every body" because everyone has different skin with different needs and slightly different preferences for lather. Hence the experimentation required to find out what the preferences are in your area, and what your skin prefers as well.

Regarding longevity, I would pull 5% from Olive Pomace to Shea butter. Shea has primarily Stearic fatty acids, which is less soluble and contributes more to longevity than Palmitic fatty acids.
If you decide to drop the CO a bit, I would put most of it to Olive Pomace but pull 2% to Castor.

 

[Dreams]

Thank you for your response..Im not in a rush in general I have been reading for months..I bought the oils back in aug 11 2020 due to sounded like would work and budget really and had started reading a month or so before that,I thought Id read alittle more then jump in and the more i read the more questions i had and would get confused and keep questioning everything i was working on and would read that that was wrong so I found this plce thank god so now i can ask and hopefully someone like you will respond again with all my questionable questions and not judge my crazy mind just roll with it..I was just looking for a start point bar that the majority would like.i know there is sensitive,oily,dry,both ect skin types but i have got myself so baffled that i need to make some so i know where to go from there..I learn better watching and doing then i do reading but you have to read to know what doing in soap,i can go buy a toilet and install it by taking apart and assemble but in soap i cant just throw bunch of stuff in and pray for the best ive learned so the more i read the more i realized i need to jump in and quite reading for a bit and start doing so today im going to take your suggestions and put to work and see what i get.i know it takes time and practice to get everything in order and years to get where i want to be at age 49 but im needing to take from page to putting the numbers in reality for me..thank you bunches and have a great night.I will actually be sleeping tonight with my first batch doing its thing insstead of sitting on my tablet

 

[cmzaha]

Please, I am not trying to judge your grammar or embarrass but can you please put spaces after your commas so it is easier to read your sentences. Believe me, my grammar is not perfect, but when sentences and paragraphs run together it is very hard to read.

If you are hoping to start a business making soap you will really need to use either lard, tallow, palm, or soy wax to make a nice long-lasting soap quality soap that customers will return for. Yes, some will totally disagree, but in my years of making and selling I have seen many soapmakers disappear that thought they could make quality soap without using such oils. Shea and Cocoa butter work well but are costly and cut deeply into your profit. There is nothing wrong with using Palm oil, you need to learn not to listen to all the horror stories and pay attention to who you purchase from. Also, our country is the least user of Palm.

It takes a year or two to come up with a good recipe, lots of testing and the numbers in soap calcs are really just guidelines they do not mean a lot. Make small batches let them cure and test them. One other thing you learn over the years of testing is to know a good bar of soap from a bad bar of soap. I would not sell today what I first made and sold although they were never bad they were certainly not what I would today call wonderful soap. I hate to admit how many years it took me to finally come up with the vegan and non-vegan base recipe I was completely happy with, only tweaking my liquid oils. Now that I found my happy formulas I decided to retire...figures.

 

[Dreams]

sorry bout that...I just have alot to ask and say and forget to breathe sometimes..thank you for your advice.Soy wax im willing, I keep going back and forth with the palm but really considering it now since tired of trying to substitute it,lard maybe and tallow no.For right now,the oils listed above is what I have to work with.I have stated above I know I cant start a business tomarrow Im just wanting to dip my toes in the water rather then continuing reading.I cant try to perfect something if I dont start and thats all Im trying to do with a vision of having something worth selling .I came here to learn from people that have been in my shoes and learn so I can have a good product and be proud of some day..Thank you for your imput

 

[SoapHobbyJT]

Hey, just checking in. How's your soap making going? Did you end up making some yesterday?

The first bar or batch doesn't even have to be good, as long as you aren't discouraged by it. People generally learn best from experimentation, and even when things don't work out as planned, it's a great learning experience. I'm a beginner as well, and have messed up quite a bit in tons of ways already in the 3 or so months I've been doing this

Each time I've messed up, it's been a bit frustrating, but I've learned a lot about how not to make soap, what tools do and don't work for me, and how I might better want to lay out colors or adjust trace or temperature for my soaping.

These sorts of things take time and experimentation. And at least for me, I find that the way I learn best is by doing, experimenting, looking at the results, and then adjusting from there.

I was curious. Were you planning on experimenting with colors, swirls and fragrances? Or is this for now just an experiment on the base oil recipe itself? If you were looking to do swirls at this point, then a slower moving formula that takes longer to trace might be better. If you were just looking to play with formulas and make the numbers look right, the recipe would be a little different.

Honestly, reading your post and all, it feels almost like I'm looking into my ADD/Anxiety brain and seeing the chaos I normally don't notice.

I wouldn't worry too much about people judging you for the anxiety and all. I'm pretty sure there's quite a few people on here with similar issues. Ultimately though, that's easy to say, but harder to do.

 

[Dreams]

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It went as if the three stooges,Larry,Curly and Moe show making it . I went downstairs to the basement work area. Feeling pretty confident but not cocky.I had done my research, watched tons of videos,had a plan of what I wanted and nope, went nothing like I planned in my head. From weighing the oils with a incorporative scale,that I borrowed and will return to getting to know the stick blender alittle to well. I wanted to had fragrance to half with alittle cocoa powder since, it was chocolate scented and add td to other to have a white then pour both in can and have a lil design..well by the time i went to add fragrance, I had pudding went to almost trace to puddin quicker then thought added fo anyhow to half to give it something,gave up on the td and cocoa..I spooned into mold and hoping it does something. Took a pic today and you can see the vanilla from fo changed the color so that something . My adult children and I had a great laugh at my expenses last night. They are calling it my puddin' soap .. Have a great day and I'll be back soaping after I get this batch out of the mold and see what happened inside..

 

[SoapHobbyJT]

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It went as if the three stooges, Larry, Curly and Moe show making it . I went downstairs to the basement work area. Feeling pretty confident but not cocky. I had done my research, watched tons of videos, had a plan of what I wanted and nope, went nothing like I planned in my head.

Haha, I think I've had that happen a time or two as well. Even a friend of mine who had been soaping for 2 years had their soap go past their planned trace by accident before too when using unfamiliar fragrances/tools that worked just fine for other people. He got pretty mad about that one for a day or so too.

From weighing the oils with a incorporative scale, that I borrowed and will return to getting to know the stick blender a little to well.

What's an incorporative scale?

Here's a helpful video about stick-blending to emulsion I saw from someone on this forum. That might be helpful. I've watched people stick blend plenty of times, but even then, it was all too easy for me to use it for far too long. I am truly talented at making pudding textured soap So far I've dodged the soap on a stick level of immersion blending (I'm ignoring the fragrance seizing issue in this instance, that's a totally different beast).

The other thing I've found is temperature definitely plays a part (don't want it to be too cold or far too hot), and that soap batter should be loosely stirred with a spatula every couple minutes or so (at least a little) to prevent it from setting up before pour.

I wanted to add fragrance to half with a little cocoa powder since, it was chocolate scented and add td to other to have a white then pour both in can and have a lil design.. well by the time I went to add fragrance, I had pudding went to almost trace to pudding quicker then thought added FO anyhow to half to give it something, gave up on the td and cocoa.. I spooned into mold and hoping it does something. Took a pic today and you can see the vanilla from FO changed the color so that something .

From what I understand with the cocoa powder and cocoa butters, the cocoa scent usually doesn't manage to survive the saponification and cure process. I tried it out too with some cocoa butter (For SCIENCE!), but the cocoa scent didn't make it for more than a day (killing one of my plans for a chocolate peppermint soap without a chocolate FO).

However, cocoa powder seems to be a popular colorant for brown shades. I'm sure you're already aware, but powder colorants do best when mixed with some oil beforehand, and if you have your colors pre-dispersed in oil before you stick-blend, it's easier to mix those colorants in faster (I've tried to wing it a few times before with mixing up my colorants after stick blending, the key word being "tried").

The other thing about vanilla and vanilla fragrances is that the Vanillin in it reacts with air and will discolor your soap. Any spot that has vanillin in and has contact with air will turn brown eventually. Goodbye my plans for a forbidden snack Klondike bar soap using vanilla fragrances as a fragrance and colorant

(Here's a soapqueen blogpost about Vanillin.)

My adult children and I had a great laugh at my expenses last night. They are calling it my puddin' soap .. Have a great day and I'll be back soaping after I get this batch out of the mold and see what happened inside..

Next time it turns into pudding like that, you should totally try out some of the nifty sculptured/textured tops stuff. I've been playing with that every time my soap starts getting that thick pudding consistency (and a lot of tapping my molds down on a flat surface too) and it can be pretty fun!

I'm glad to hear that you had a laugh out of it. I was worried you'd be discouraged from soaping. You have a great day too! Glad to hear you had a great laugh out of it at least!

 

[GemstonePony]

I'm sorry, I forgot to warn you: the only oil you're using that won't accelerate trace is RBO. I would recommend using a whisk (silicone or stainless steel) to bring this recipe to trace. Keep the stick-blender on hand in case your fragrance rices, and if you have additives (aside from color or fragrance), you can blend them into liquid or oils before hand. Otherwise, I would leave the SB out of the batter.

 

[Dreams]

Haha, I think I've had that happen a time or two as well. Even a friend of mine who had been soaping for 2 years had their soap go past their planned trace by accident before too when using unfamiliar fragrances/tools that worked just fine for other people. He got pretty mad about that one for a day or so too.



What's an incorporative scale?

Here's a helpful video about stick-blending to emulsion I saw from someone on this forum. That might be helpful. I've watched people stick blend plenty of times, but even then, it was all too easy for me to use it for far too long. I am truly talented at making pudding textured soap So far I've dodged the soap on a stick level of immersion blending (I'm ignoring the fragrance seizing issue in this instance, that's a totally different beast).

The other thing I've found is temperature definitely plays a part (don't want it to be too cold or far too hot), and that soap batter should be loosely stirred with a spatula every couple minutes or so (at least a little) to prevent it from setting up before pour.



From what I understand with the cocoa powder and cocoa butters, the cocoa scent usually doesn't manage to survive the saponification and cure process. I tried it out too with some cocoa butter (For SCIENCE!), but the cocoa scent didn't make it for more than a day (killing one of my plans for a chocolate peppermint soap without a chocolate FO).

However, cocoa powder seems to be a popular colorant for brown shades. I'm sure you're already aware, but powder colorants do best when mixed with some oil beforehand, and if you have your colors pre-dispersed in oil before you stick-blend, it's easier to mix those colorants in faster (I've tried to wing it a few times before with mixing up my colorants after stick blending, the key word being "tried").

The other thing about vanilla and vanilla fragrances is that the Vanillin in it reacts with air and will discolor your soap. Any spot that has vanillin in and has contact with air will turn brown eventually. Goodbye my plans for a forbidden snack Klondike bar soap using vanilla fragrances as a fragrance and colorant

(Here's a soapqueen blogpost about Vanillin.)



Next time it turns into pudding like that, you should totally try out some of the nifty sculptured/textured tops stuff. I've been playing with that every time my soap starts getting that thick pudding consistency (and a lot of tapping my molds down on a flat surface too) and it can be pretty fun!

I'm glad to hear that you had a laugh out of it. I was worried you'd be discouraged from soaping. You have a great day too! Glad to hear you had a great laugh out of it at least!

The problem I had with the scale was it would register with nothing on and shut off when try to take oil out. I had to zero out another bowl put the oil in that and continue that way. I was later told it needed to be recalculated or something like that. Oh yes it was a experience if I wasn't stick blending so much I would know what a fly on the wall laughing sounds like.I was going to use the cocoa powder to darken up the fo part and td the other and try have a lil design thats why I was using it. It was like every thing I had read and watched went out the window when I started, looked like the cook from the muppet show... Not discouraged alittle disappointed but could still come out to something I could use, hopefully going to wait till tomorrow night to try to hopefully cut it.. thanks for the chat and info

 

[Dreams]

I'm sorry, I forgot to warn you: the only oil you're using that won't accelerate trace is RBO. I would recommend using a whisk (silicone or stainless steel) to bring this recipe to trace. Keep the stick-blender on hand in case your fragrance rices, and if you have additives (aside from color or fragrance), you can blend them into liquid or oils before hand. Otherwise, I would leave the SB out of the batter.

So I can blame this mess on you.Oh it was a fun learning experience.Had everything planned was feeling good about it,had the info I learned running through my mind and BOOM when I started looked like a 2year old making a cake..I knew it would trace quicker jist due to the oop but was wondering if was getting a false trace and nope it was the real thing.I just got stick blender happy cause, why play with the buttons beforehand and actually know how to use...back to it Sunday hopefully, after I get this batch unmolded and see what the middle looks like..thanks for chatting

 

[KiwiMoose]

My first few times making soap I found quite stressful - just a warning. Once I had gotten the hang of it, it became very easy and relaxing. Good that you gave it a shot, and it looks like it might be soap!
I second Gemstone Pony's advice and next time maybe give this a go:
25% CO
20% RBO
30% OOP
20% Shea Butter
5% Castor

It's not a perfect recipe, but should work OK.

If you want to introduce soy wax in the future, I find it to be a cost-effective alternative to other high-stearic/palmitic oils given that i don't use animal fats or palm either. Get the Golden Brands 415.

Also just checking - you mentioned a can - I'm hoping it is a pringles can and not a metal one?

Let us know how it is once you cut it

 

[SoapHobbyJT]

The problem I had with the scale was it would register with nothing on and shut off when try to take oil out. I had to zero out another bowl put the oil in that and continue that way. I was later told it needed to be recalculated or something like that. Oh yes it was a experience if I wasn't stick blending so much I would know what a fly on the wall laughing sounds like.I was going to use the cocoa powder to darken up the fo part and td the other and try have a lil design thats why I was using it. It was like every thing I had read and watched went out the window when I started, looked like the cook from the muppet show... Not discouraged alittle disappointed but could still come out to something I could use, hopefully going to wait till tomorrow night to try to hopefully cut it.. thanks for the chat and info

Oh, that sounds annoying to deal with. Oh, okay, I thought you had meant you were trying to also get the cocoa scent in as well as use it as a colorant rather than just use it as a colorant.

Have you taken it out of the mold? How's it looking?

As for the Soy wax suggestion from kiwi, that's also a pretty good way to get stearic fatty acids in rather than shea butter for a hard bar. Right now I'm experimenting with using about 10% soy wax in my own formulations.

Once you get going it'll come easier. I find a lot of the times I'm having to make adjustments on the fly based on how my trace/soap batter is moving

 

[Dreams]

My first few times making soap I found quite stressful - just a warning. Once I had gotten the hang of it, it became very easy and relaxing. Good that you gave it a shot, and it looks like it might be soap!
I second Gemstone Pony's advice and next time maybe give this a go:
25% CO
20% RBO
30% OOP
20% Shea Butter
5% Castor

It's not a perfect recipe, but should work OK.

If you want to introduce soy wax in the future, I find it to be a cost-effective alternative to other high-stearic/palmitic oils given that i don't use animal fats or palm either. Get the Golden Brands 415.

Also just checking - you mentioned a can - I'm hoping it is a pringles can and not a metal one?

Let us know how it is once you cut it

 

[Dreams]

Sorry didn't get back to anyone,busy weekend..and will listen to all suggested advice,thank you...here's the picks from unmolded and cut yesterday to today.. Was interesting first batch sorry bad pics.

 

[GemstonePony]

Sorry didn't get back to anyone,busy weekend..and will listen to all suggested advice,thank you...here's the picks from unmolded and cut yesterday to today.. Was interesting first batch sorry bad pics.View attachment 53156View attachment 53157View attachment 53158

Hey, it looks like soap to me! And it's even multi-toned! Good job!

 

[dibbles]

Your first soap babies! Congratulations, they look great. You don't want to leave them on the metal rack. Either move them or place some paper or cloth between the soaps and the rack.

 

[SoapHobbyJT]

Yay! Congratulations on your first soap! Thanks for sharing pictures! The little mold's soap looks like it's getting more brown already too. I'm not crazy am I?

 

[Dreams]

Your first soap babies! Congratulations, they look great. You don't want to leave them on the metal rack. Either move them or place some paper or cloth between the soaps and the rack.

going to lay parchment paper down but was told that could lay them on stainless steel racks

Yay! Congratulations on your first soap! Thanks for sharing pictures! The little mold's soap looks like it's getting more brown already too. I'm not crazy am I?

Thank you,.no you not crazy.. that mold had more of the fo oils in it

 

[AliOop]

Hi @Dreams , great job on your first soap! The issue with stainless steel racks is that most often they are just coated with stainless. The coating develops cracks over time, and that will expose your soaps to the non-stainless metal underneath. That in turn can cause "dreaded orange spots" (DOS) - a form of rancidity - on your soaps. You also want to be sure they are cured away from light, excessive heat or high humidity, if possible.