Breast Milk Soap: Too much oil??

[Peggy]

I made breast milk soap two days ago, but it doesn't seem right. Liquid (looking like oil) keeps separating from the soap, and the soap just can't harden. Here's the recipe: 6 oz. breast milk, 16 oz. olive oil, and 2.235 oz. lye. I mixed lye with frozen milk, stirred them until well mixed. The temperature didn't get too hot though. Then I mixed the lye/milk into olive oil. Since I didn't have a stick blender, I just stirred the mixture for a few minutes at the beginning, and stirred it later every 3 to 4 hours. On the second day, the mixture traced but oil kept coming out from the soap. Now I can squeeze oil out of the soap mixture. Did I stir too much? Is it possible to save this batch or to turn it into liquid castile soap? Or should I just throw it away?

 

[Meganmischke]

Could you post your recipe please?

 

[CanaDawn]

she did: 6 oz. breast milk, 16 oz. olive oil, and 2.235 oz. lye

 

[CanaDawn]

Even at 0% SF that comes out as lye heavy if I type it into soapcalc as a castile (and we assume the milkfat will just be SF). How did you calculate the lye? Am I making an error re the milk?

If I use the milkfat (which is bovine and nothing like human) on soapcalc, it still doesn't come to your number.

 

[Peggy]

Hi Meganmischke, I don't have an exact recipe. Here's the ingredients:
6 oz. breast milk
16 oz. olive oil
2.235 oz. lye
I mixed lye with frozen milk, stirred them until well mixed. The temperature didn't get too hot though. Then I mixed the lye/milk into olive oil (below 50 degrees Celsius). Since I didn't have a stick blender, I just stirred the mixture for a few minutes at the beginning, and stirred it later every 3 to 4 hours.

I think I have missed the timing to pour it into the mold, that's why I had to spoon it. The mixture was softer yesterday, but oil has been separating from it since then. Now the mixture was somewhat hard, and I can squeeze oil from it.

My three-month-old daughter has eczema and I heard that breast milk soap can help. I have found some other recipes, but they all call for other oils which I don't have at this moment.

 

[Seawolfe]

Two days to trace
That is basically a castille soap, those take a long time to trace even with a stick blender. You need a stick blender!
PS castilles also need a long cure time, several months.

 

[Peggy]

Hi CanaDawn, the fat content in breast milk is around 4.2%, so it can be regarded as superfat. Honestly speaking, it has been more than 12 years since the last time I made olive oil soap. Back then I didn't have a stick blender, and it worked. Suppose I have way underestimated the difficulties of making breast milk soap. :sad:

 

[Seawolfe]

There's a thread here where someone made castille just by stirring with a spoon, but it took hours to reach trace. I'm not sure what happens if you start and stop over days. I'd guess it separates? If it's homogenous, stuff it in a mold and see what happens?

 

[cmzaha]

Hi Meganmischke, I don't have an exact recipe. Here's the ingredients:
6 oz. breast milk
16 oz. olive oil
2.235 oz. lye
I mixed lye with frozen milk, stirred them until well mixed. The temperature didn't get too hot though. Then I mixed the lye/milk into olive oil (below 50 degrees Celsius). Since I didn't have a stick blender, I just stirred the mixture for a few minutes at the beginning, and stirred it later every 3 to 4 hours.

I think I have missed the timing to pour it into the mold, that's why I had to spoon it. The mixture was softer yesterday, but oil has been separating from it since then. Now the mixture was somewhat hard, and I can squeeze oil from it.


My three-month-old daughter has eczema and I heard that breast milk soap can help. I have found some other recipes, but they all call for other oils which I don't have at this moment.

Just a thought. If she is not allergic to avocados avocado oil and avocado can work wonders for eczema and diaper rash. I am not a doctor and not prescribing, just know how it helps both of my granddaughters

 

[Meganmischke]

I don't know how often you are bathing her but babies really don't get that dirty and really don't need any soap in my opinion. I know bm just put on rashes really does help clear them up in my experience. when I was in a similar situation I focused on a good moisturizer. I made mine with shea, coconut, and colloidal oatmeal. I wish I could be more help but my 4 babies grew out of the baby eczema stage mostly by 6 months. I still didn't use soap more than twice a month until 1 year old. I think ypu have some great advice about the soap above. Good luck

 

[Susie]

Too little oil. That soap is lye heavy. I would honestly toss it out, as I am not sure of how the milk would react in a crock pot rebatch situation.

You need to use a reliable lye calculator to make recipes. You also need to be sure you use a good digital scale that has been checked for accuracy. A stick blender is your next best friend, as this save hours and hours of stirring(and 100% Olive Oil is the worst to try to get to trace already!) Also, curing time for castile(aka 100% olive oil) soap is MONTHS.

Quite often, eczema will be much improved by just using a home made soap without any colorants or additives. Nothing special required. Just getting rid of the syndet bars will usually be it's own "cure". Home made soap still contains all the glycerin that is produced in the saponification process. I would also swap to a "free and clear" type of detergent, and not use dryer sheets. If the eczema continues in spite of those changes, I would then swap to home made laundry soap. What you are trying to do is eliminate causes, rather than actually finding a cure. There are several threads in this forum that discuss eczema, just use the search bar at the top.

 

[IrishLass]

Going by SoapCalc, it looks like you used a 26.877% lye solution for your batch (basically what is considered to be a 'full water' amount, which would explain the slow trace problems you had with this batch), and it's also telling me (based on the lye amount) that your batch has a negative 3% superfat, i.e., an excess of 3% lye. That's not taking into account the fat in your breastmilk, though, so the lye excess might be less than that. But how much less, I don't know.

You gave figure of 4.2% for the fat content of human breast milk, but I don't know that I would rely upon that figure as a 'given' for all breast milk, since the fat content of breast milk varies greatly with the diet of the mom. For example, one of my family members was not able to continue breastfeeding her baby because her breast milk did not contain enough fat to nourish the wee bairn. I happened to have been breastfeeding my own baby at the time (our babies were born just months apart) and she marveled at the fat content of my milk one day as we compared our expressed breast milk side by side (which was left to sit until the fat rose to the top). Mine had a good 2 or 3 inches of fat while hers had barely a even a sliver of an oil slick on top. She was heartbroken that she had to put her baby on formula, and I was heartbroken for her, but the good news is that her baby began to thrive on the formula and all was well in the end.

Anyway, the point of me saying all that is because I wanted to stress how important it is to plug in a positive superfat up front based on the known SAP of a given fat instead of going to the negative side of zero and relying on a figure that may or may not be accurate for a substance with no known SAP# (at least as far as I know human breast milk doesn't have a SAP#, although I could be wrong).

Like others have said, I would give your soap some sitting time at this point. Oftentimes, minor oil slicks will absorb right back into the soap over a period of days. Once you see the oil slick absorbing back in, give the soap a zap test. If it zaps, let it sit for a week or so longer and test again. If it doesn't zap after a week- great! If it does zap, you may want to consider rebatching with some extra olive oil added at 1 tsp quantities at a time as it's cooking (tongue testing about 10 to 20 minutes after each addition) until you notice the soap no longer zaps. Let us know how it goes!


IrishLass

 

[CanaDawn]

Just saying that breastmilk fat content mostly depends on when in the letdown it was taken. Hindmilk is fatty, foremilk is not. Mother's diet will have very very little to do with milk fat %. (here's evidence-based backup for that, I don't want to discuss it as if it isn't fact http://kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/change-milkfat/ ) That said, it is correct that the fat content of breastmilk can vary considerably from the same woman, even within the same feeding/pumping, so it will be very difficult to calculate, and even if we used the higher number, there is very little room for error in the lyeil ratio of that recipe.

As to what to do about it, I don't feel I have the expertise in soaping (vs breastmilk biology) to advise.

 

[Ellacho]

I made three batches of BM soap(but no castile) in the past. It's not too much oil, it's too much water, IMO. I ran your recipe through a lye calculator (soapcalc) and it looked like you've used 38% water (Water as percent of oil weight). Whenever I used 38% water, I've always had a problem of unmolding the soap. I now use 27%-33% water all my CP soaps.

Since castile soap takes a long time to trace(even with the SB!), I would first check the pH level of your soap or zap test just to be sure. If it does not zap, I would definitely wait a couple more days to unmold it.

I also recommend using a SB for your next batch of soap.

 

[CanaDawn]

Is it even _in_ a mold?

 

[jules92207]

For time sake I would certainly recommend just rubbing breast milk on the babies skin. Your soap may still work out, or not, but if it does it would still need a long cure to be good. One of my first CP soaps is an unscented bastille with breast milk and I test it every few months. Its been almost 6 months and it still needs more time I think. I sure hope the soap turns out for you though!

 

[Peggy]

Thank you all for your help; I really appreciate it. I have just run a PH test and the soap is way too alkaline. I am not saying 9 or 10, but at least 12 or more. The super alkaline liquid separating from the soap is actually not oily but watery.

I have just molded the soap, but I doubt it would turn out any good. I can see pockets and holes with the tea-like alkaline liquid in them. After reading other articles regarding breast milk soap, I think I must have missed the timing to mold. In other words, I might have over-stirred it and caused the liquid separation.

I totally agree with Seawolfe that a stick blender is what I need.

Thank you, ladies, for the tips regarding eczema. I know I was silly making soap for my baby for her eczema; by the time the soap is ready, her eczema might have been gone, too. I will try applying bm to her skin and see if it helps.

I think I will buy different types of oil to make the bm soap again. Using pure olive oil is definitely not a good idea for a newbie!

 

[CanaDawn]

I don't think you overstirred it. I think it's not formulated properly and it's lye-heavy and not safe for an infant. If that liquid WAS oil, we could have a different conversation, but at this point, the soap is clearly not working properly, as far as I can tell.

I second the idea of just using the milk straight on the skin - you can just express straight on to the troubled area, or pump if that's easier for you.

 

[Susie]

Your soap was not formulated correctly. That is why it is high on the pH. You need to learn how to use a lye calculator correctly. Before making any more soap.

You did not over stir. Your soap was not formulated correctly. That is why it is separating.

You must run every recipe through a lye calculator for yourself. Every recipe.

You must carefully weigh all ingredients with a digital scale.