Brand new to soap making. Does this sound right?

[DaniJ]

theGecko, how do you like your recipe? I'd have no problem using sustainable palm oil for personal soap, I figured for selling it'd be easier to just leave it out, but, that's subject to change because I definitely dont know what I'm doing yet.

A few Updates.

first of all, Im an absolute dork. Yeah. That coconut oil that I realized was fractionated cus it never solidified? Not fractionated. I finally bothered to read the container when I saw chunks of solid coconut oil forming in it. Turns out it liquefies at 76 degrees and my house is just warm. it's unrefined virgin coconut oil. Thankfully I noticed that BEFORE making my first batch because I reran the recipe and the amount of lye needed dropped.

Second, I made my first batch.

I measured everything out as precise as I could but found out the scale I got doesn't do the precise weigh out, just whole numbers. How much will that be a problem later on?

I panicked trying to get my batter into the mold quick because it thickened up pretty quick and got some on my face. (IT BURNS). I didn't use any fragrance, just the oils I listed. I'd say I was mixing for a couple minutes or so before it went from liquidy to thicker than it probably should've been.

Everything was liquid, the coconut oil was still melted (i didn't warm it more), and I added the lye when it reached 129 degrees.

So basically.. what the heck. Did I do anything obviously wrong to cause it to thicken so quickly? what is the average time for trace? I put the mold in a box, covered it in towels and put a heating pad on low under it for a while.. Will it be ok or .... ?

Also (side note) the mica I got came in 50 different fabulous colors but really only enough of each to do one big batch or a few small batches. I picked basic blue and now I have ugly gray soap :| .. not important I just thought I'd include that.

 

[JoeyJ]

So basically.. what the heck. Did I do anything obviously wrong to cause it to thicken so quickly? what is the average time for trace?

I read somewhere (after my accelerated batches problem) that because stick blending is so good at emulsifying and starting trace, that soapmakers often dont notice their soap has reached trace. By stick blending all the way to thick trace, the reaction between the lye and oils has been sped up so much that the heat created by the reaction speeds it up even more.
Since I have been only pulsing my stick blender for a few seconds before stirring it around and checking for trace, I have been able to achieve a lot more control over how fast my batch moves. I conclude I can always stick-blend it more later, but can't reverse the trace!

I have to say, that brightly vivid blue soap certainly caught my eye. Those were some pretty good failures indeed since you made some fantastic "lemonade" with them.

The layered soap? Its melt and pour, my very first loaf, copying Dean Wilson. Used to be Sentinel Soaps, now Swirl Soaps.

 

[amd]

Is there another lye calculator with that option, that is fairly easy to understand? I tried soapcalc but they want me to enter something about the lye/water ratio/percentage or something along those lines .

You should understand lye concentration or water:lye ratio before making soap. The less water you use, the faster your soap will trace, setup and unmold (it does not speed up cure time). Using too much water may cause your bars to warp as they cure and age. It's actually quite simple.
In soapcalc:

The default is Water as % of Oils - we do not recommend using this setting as it will give you inconsistent results for different recipes, and doesn't ensure that you have enough water to safely dissolve lye.

We prefer to use either Lye concentration or Water:Lye Ratio. They both mean the same thing and are calculated based on the lye amount.

Lye concentration just means that if you add your lye amount and your water amount together, this % of the total is lye. You need to have at most 50% (or equal portions lye and water) to safely dissolve lye. It will not dissolve fully if there is more lye than water. Most soapers use a concentration in the range of 30-38%, although you can soap as low as 25% (more water) or as high as 50% (less water), although for safety sake I would never soap more than 40% (my opinion and 2 cents).

Lye ratio is the ratio equivalent of lye concentration. It just means that you have x parts water to x parts lye. Water should never be less than 1, and lye should always be 1. It is always in the water:lye order. So if you have a 1:1 ratio, it means you have equal amount water to equal amount of lye (or 50% lye concentration). Most soapers will use 1.7 - 2.3 parts water. The larger the first number, the more water (or lower % concentration).

There are several great threads explaining water concentration much better than I have, it's worth searching the forum for.

Also, in soap calc you can click the number by each entry field (in the case of water, it is the number 3 in the box) and a help box will pop up explaining it.

Also take some time to read through the stickies in the beginner's forum, there should be some threads there to direct you to some good tutorials that will go into soapmaking in more detail.

It's a lot to take in and I spent a good year just reading before I made my first batch of soap. Don't rush into selling.

 

[Sraymoure]

Joey that soap looks amazing! I hope mine turns out half as well. Im going with cold process to keep things simpler ..I definitely want to play around with oils and additives but Im not ready yet.

Earlene, the funny thing is When I added it to the list of things I needed, I still didn't understand there was a difference between regular coconut oil and fractionated. I ordered the one I did purely based on the reviews on it. When it came it was liquid but it was hot out so I figured it was melted from being shipped. When it didnt firm up I started looking into it more lol. I know a lot more about soap making now than when I made the list, but I got the essentials to get started and make the very basic of soap. I do think next time I want to go with regular coconut oil though

Oh yeah, I wanted to add that since my last post I am understanding soapcalc more. It is recommending more lye than brambleberry, but the amount of lye it recommends matches up to the other calculators I tried more closely so I am inclined to believe that one a bit more. I think I have it set for a 33% lye concentration. Is 33% a good amount to go with?

Here’s a link to DeeAnna’s article on water concentration:
https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp

Good luck and enjoy the process!

 

[TheGecko]

theGecko, how do you like your recipe? I'd have no problem using sustainable palm oil for personal soap, I figured for selling it'd be easier to just leave it out, but, that's subject to change because I definitely dont know what I'm doing yet.

I LOVE my recipe. Lathers up nice, doesn't feel slimy and dries quickly. And since all my ingredients are light in color, it takes color really well.

I've gotten very good at changing people's minds about the importance of supporting RSPO certified palm farmers.

first of all, Im an absolute dork. Yeah. That coconut oil that I realized was fractionated cus it never solidified? Not fractionated. I finally bothered to read the container when I saw chunks of solid coconut oil forming in it. Turns out it liquefies at 76 degrees and my house is just warm. it's unrefined virgin coconut oil. Thankfully I noticed that BEFORE making my first batch because I reran the recipe and the amount of lye needed dropped.

After having a, thankfully, small batch of soap seize on me because I neglected to read up on the fragrance that it massively accelerates, I'm so much better at double-checking everything. And I double-check everything in SoapCalc because I have erred before...entering the wrong ingredient because I was in a hurry

Second, I made my first batch.

Congratulations!!!

I measured everything out as precise as I could but found out the scale I got doesn't do the precise weigh out, just whole numbers. How much will that be a problem later on?

There is a reason why we weigh our ingredients. It's okay to be off a smidgen...like you're supposed to have 3.20 oz and you accidently put in 3.25; it's not going to change anything. But say you're weighing your lye and you're supposed to have 3.05 oz and you put in 4.00 oz; that's almost an extra ounce of lye. I would recommend getting a new scale, I bought one from Amazon for $14.00 and it's pretty darn accurate.

I panicked trying to get my batter into the mold quick because it thickened up pretty quick and got some on my face. (IT BURNS).

I keep a spray bottle of vinegar in my work area, for just such emergencies...it neutralizes the lye. I also use it on my lye solution container so I don't have lye going down the sink...don't need our Mayor taxing me for it. And I also have a spray bottle of an orange decreaser that I use to spray down my mixing bowls, utensils, etc before I wash them. Cuts on on dish soap and paper towels.

I didn't use any fragrance, just the oils I listed. I'd say I was mixing for a couple minutes or so before it went from liquidy to thicker than it probably should've been. Everything was liquid, the coconut oil was still melted (i didn't warm it more), and I added the lye when it reached 129 degrees. So basically.. what the heck. Did I do anything obviously wrong to cause it to thicken so quickly? what is the average time for trace? I put the mold in a box, covered it in towels and put a heating pad on low under it for a while.. Will it be ok or .... ?

Nope. Just normal science...and a stick blender. I soaped my first batch at about 110 degrees, but I had a really crappy stick blender my youngest son gave me. Had a heck of a time getting it to trace because of it so I was lulled into a false sense of security. So I bought a new stick blender and that sucker was a BEAST I tell you, it took two hands to control it, my bowl was spinning around and I went from liquid to a thick pudding in like 30 seconds! So I thought...maybe I'm soaping too hot so I started making my lye solution at night and letting it cool in the garage overnight. This time I was prepared for the BEAST and so I did a lot of stirring and pulsing...like all the folks in the videos. Pudding.

So I went back to the videos to see what I was doing wrong. DUH. It was so simple. I'm mixing like I'm making a 10 lb batch of soap when I'm only making 2 lbs! So what I do now is I pulse my oils, add my colorants, pulse again, stir in my lye, give a couple of short pulses, check to see if my batter is emulsified (it usually is), stir in my fragrance, give it a short pulse...and pour at a light to light-medium trace. It takes me long to measure my ingredients that it does to mix and pour.[/quote][/quote]

 

[cmzaha]

I keep a spray bottle of vinegar in my work area, for just such emergencies...it neutralizes the lye. I also use it on my lye solution container so I don't have lye going down the sink...don't need our Mayor taxing me for it. And I also have a spray bottle of an orange decreaser that I use to spray down my mixing bowls, utensils, etc before I wash them. Cuts on on dish soap and paper towels.

You do not want to spray vinegar on your skin, MSDS sheets for lye will tell you to rinse with copious amounts of cool water. Vinegar is just adding another chemical to a potential chemical burn. As for lye going down the drain, many drains cleaners are lye. Also, if a person has an old oven that is not self-cleaning, many oven cleaners are lye based. Lye is not poison it is caustic.

 

[DaniJ]

Sorry I haven't responded in a bit. For starters i am happy to say I am understanding soapcalc a lot more and have been reading up on different ratios. I went with 33% the first time because that just seemed to be what everyone recommended. After i learn more I may play around with it (a bit).

The stick blender I got is definitely kind of a beast (or I'm just super weak?) ,and after reading your comments and a bit more on it, I definitely over blended. I watched all these professionals making big batches and blending the heck out of them so I figured I had to do that too and I had to do it fast. Oops. I'm gonna try short bursts next time and hand mixing. I pretty much stick blended the whole time and it wasn't in short bursts. I was under the impression that trace would take a lot longer than it did so when it started thickening up more I thought that might've been false trace.. so I kept on mixing .

I'm seeing that my scale does precise weigh outs in ounces , just not grams . I guess I could switch to oz measurements but everything I've read has been putting it in grams so I did too. But I do want to invest in a new one anyway.

So, since it was so gloppy and thick I didn't get it down in the mold good enough and it's kind of holey and uneven. It's pretty ugly. I showed 3 people a picture of it. The person who paid for all the ingredients and wanted me to help him with this in the first place was extremely supportive and told me it was great for a first try (not really but I appreciate the encouragement). The other 2 told me it looks like dog droppings. (They did not use the word droppings. I just assume there's rules about swear words on here .. ) I'm gonna keep the next few batches to myself and already informed those 2 that when my soap starts getting awesome guess who ain't getting any. lol .

Thank you all again for your help with this. Did people tell you how ugly your first batch was or do I just need new friends?

 

[Dawni]

Lol your true friends will tell you if your soap is ugly or not haha

In my case I let my teenager do the judging. He's very frank. He tells me if it looks like poop or vomit, if it looks like brownies he might eat, or if it looks like ok soap or nice soap haha.

Regardless, he uses them all lol and does tell me that.. yknow it looks like poop but feels great.. All's good.

 

[Liesel Atwood]

Hi Dani J.! I'm just chiming in on the "affordable mold options." I have also used milk cartons...the 2 gallon size. They were very efficient, but for me, getting a relatively equal size bar was nearly impossible. (I can't slice bread evenly either. LOL ) There is one particular item that turned out to be awesome for my needs, and that is the Pringles can. I'm sure many people have also tried these. They work well if you save the plastic cap for the top; for easier unmolding I'd suggest lining the inside with parchment paper or waxed paper. After the soap has set up, use a can opener to take the bottom off, and push your soap through the other end. You might need a small jar or another solid item to help you push the soap out. The can will only be usable once, but if you eat the chips anyway it's a cheap alternative to other molds. Good luck with your soaping! You'll get the hang of it, and in a few years you'll be an expert! Best wishes.

 

[DaniJ]

My mom isn't one to mince words either, she also told me it was less than pleasant looking lol. thanks mom! I told them if it doesn't burn off my skin when I test it I will consider it a success.

The pringles idea is awesome! And also gives me a valid reason to add them the shopping list lol. I was gonna swing by the dollar store and see what I could find for mixing bowls,molds,containers etc.
About how many ounces/grams does a standard size pringles can hold?

Despite my frustration (and sweet soap scar on my face -which is fading quick enough) , this seems like something I could definitely have fun with.

quick question (and I am definitely getting ahead of myself here), I watched a video of someone making swirl/stop soap. She colored the soap in different batches, poured it into her mold from the sides in different colors until it was filled, put it on a lazy susan, spinned it, stopped it, repeat. Through the whole thing she kept repeating how this was only for experienced soap makers..It looks like something I'd like to try fairly soon but how long should I wait and what about it am I missing that makes it for experienced soap makers only? (other than the trace having to be pretty exact and not to thick )

 

[Dawni]

I think knowing when you are at emulsion needs some experience. It tends to be difficult to tell if you should stop mixing now or 5 seconds later. Too early and you'll get separation, too late and by the time you're at the top of your mold your batter is too thick.

Sometimes, even thin trace is already too much if you plan on using a lot of colors. You also need to know your colorants and your fragrances. Some can accelerate batter or morph.

Then there's also knowing if your recipe is a fast tracer or not, and what to do with either. In some cases, ambient temps are a factor, as well as your liquid/oil/batter temps.

A lot of the experienced soapers are also able to plan their swirls and they more or less know what they'll end up with

Not saying you can't attempt it now, not 5yrs down, just that there are certain things you need to know for you to guarantee a success.

 

[MGM]

A lot of the experienced soapers are also able to plan their swirls and they more or less know what they'll end up with

Not saying you can't attempt it now, not 5yrs down, just that there are certain things you need to know for you to guarantee a success.

We should have a gallery where we write what we thought was going to happen and then post what we ended up with. Bonus points if you have an "inspiration" photo you can post. A "Nailed It" for soap, as it were.

 

[user 33741]

You should understand lye concentration or water:lye ratio before making soap. The less water you use, the faster your soap will trace, setup and unmold (it does not speed up cure time). Using too much water may cause your bars to warp as they cure and age. It's actually quite simple.
In soapcalc:

The default is Water as % of Oils - we do not recommend using this setting as it will give you inconsistent results for different recipes, and doesn't ensure that you have enough water to safely dissolve lye.

We prefer to use either Lye concentration or Water:Lye Ratio. They both mean the same thing and are calculated based on the lye amount.

Lye concentration just means that if you add your lye amount and your water amount together, this % of the total is lye. You need to have at most 50% (or equal portions lye and water) to safely dissolve lye. It will not dissolve fully if there is more lye than water. Most soapers use a concentration in the range of 30-38%, although you can soap as low as 25% (more water) or as high as 50% (less water), although for safety sake I would never soap more than 40% (my opinion and 2 cents).

Lye ratio is the ratio equivalent of lye concentration. It just means that you have x parts water to x parts lye. Water should never be less than 1, and lye should always be 1. It is always in the water:lye order. So if you have a 1:1 ratio, it means you have equal amount water to equal amount of lye (or 50% lye concentration). Most soapers will use 1.7 - 2.3 parts water. The larger the first number, the more water (or lower % concentration).

There are several great threads explaining water concentration much better than I have, it's worth searching the forum for.

Also, in soap calc you can click the number by each entry field (in the case of water, it is the number 3 in the box) and a help box will pop up explaining it.

Also take some time to read through the stickies in the beginner's forum, there should be some threads there to direct you to some good tutorials that will go into soapmaking in more detail.

It's a lot to take in and I spent a good year just reading before I made my first batch of soap. Don't rush into selling.

What a great explanation. Wish I had read this when I first started!

 

[dibbles]

I'm seeing that my scale does precise weigh outs in ounces , just not grams . I guess I could switch to oz measurements but everything I've read has been putting it in grams so I did too. But I do want to invest in a new one anyway.

If your scale shows gram weight in whole numbers only, that is fine for soap making. I always weigh in grams and that is how mine works. A fraction of a gram is such a tiny amount it won't make a difference.

 

[DaniJ]

We should have a gallery where we write what we thought was going to happen and then post what we ended up with. Bonus points if you have an "inspiration" photo you can post. A "Nailed It" for soap, as it were.

yisssssssss lol. I need this in my life. I read enough before I started to know that I WOULD mess up sooner or later (or sooner), knowing people still mess up even after mastering soap making is kind of comforting ..and kind of daunting lol.

I think I'm gonna maybe wait a bit longer to try swirl soap but I was going to try it with heavy olive oil soap, just because I've read that olive oil soap takes longer to come to trace, so I thought I'd have a little longer to play with it.. but I've also read that heavy/pure olive oil soap is kinda hard to color because it's already tinted ..so ..maybe not? Can you swirl olive oil soap with mica?

Also I have watched and read several videos/posts about coloring soap with mica. Several have suggested that I pre mix it with some kind of oil but none of them mentioned if I am supposed to deduct that oil from my measured oil, or just use more oil to mix it. Since nobody really covered this I feel like I'm missing something obvious and it's probably kind of a dumb question but I'm trying to be very cautious.

Speaking of, I appreciate every single one of you so much right now. Even if I don't respond directly to something you said, it's all being read, and ingested (hopefully) .

I have bulk size bottles of oil that are here just for me to practice on (no intention of selling anything I make for at least the next year or more) , so, hopefully by the time it's time to re order, I'll have some what gotten the hang of this.

For funsies (it'll be a while) I may post a picture of my first batch vs the last batch I make with the oils I have .. if I have improved by then. If I haven't ya'll aint gonna hear from me again for a while lol.

If by some chance my second batch turns out much better than the first I will post a picture ..I am not anticipating this happening though.

 

[TheGecko]

Did people tell you how ugly your first batch was or do I just need new friends?

I used BrambeBerry's Beginner's Kit so the actual soap turned out beautifully. BUT. The fragrance oil was so strong that we were forced to open every door and window. Hubby shut himself in our bedroom with a towel under the door, and I had a massive headache for hours. Even my neighbor came over wondering what that SMELL was!

My first few months soap making I was running 50/50 on failures and successes. There was the batch that we had to use a screwdriver and a hammer to get out of the mold because I didn't know that you had to line plastic molds...I had only seen folks line wooden molds. I had one batch, beautiful white soap with a bright orange stripe in the center and swirl on top, completely shatter when I went to cut it. The batch were I forgot to add my olive oil, another batch where I grabbed the wrong lye solution, another batch that looked like tapioca, another batch that seized. And my first goat milk soap didn't turn out well either. But even the failures were successes because I learned from them. You can spend 20 years learning how to build a house, but it isn't until you put hammer to wood that the real education begins.

My husband is very...umm...supportive of my efforts: "Well that didn't turn out so well." My daughter though, "That looks like crap Mom, but nice try." She only added the last part because she loves my Chocolate Espresso Soap and wants a full bar for herself. LOL

 

[lucycat]

Do my friends think I make ugly soap? Well, after years of making soap no they don't say so if they think it. That doesn't mean all of them use it! One of my closest friends doesn't like the idea of a bar soap at a sink because than one person uses it. She only wants liquid in a bottle; my dad wouldn't give up Dove for my soap; my nephew loves it (when free) but can't imagine why anyone would pay more than Walmart prices. As much as there is a segment of the population that loves the feel of handmade soap (with its corresponding scent and handmade looks) there are more people that just can't get into it. That will also include your friends and family. Their loss. Have fun with your new hobby.

 

[Kiti Williams]

Do my friends think I make ugly soap? Well, after years of making soap no they don't say so if they think it. That doesn't mean all of them use it! One of my closest friends doesn't like the idea of a bar soap at a sink because than one person uses it. She only wants liquid in a bottle; my dad wouldn't give up Dove for my soap; my nephew loves it (when free) but can't imagine why anyone would pay more than Walmart prices. As much as there is a segment of the population that loves the feel of handmade soap (with its corresponding scent and handmade looks) there are more people that just can't get into it. That will also include your friends and family. Their loss. Have fun with your new hobby.

Everyone in my household uses my soap. Hubby's beard soap makes his whiskers so soft and manageable! YD has freaky sensitive skin, so she likes my liquid soap. She can thin it down to suit her needs, and scent it however she likes. My granddaughter uses both a bath bar and a shampoo bar, at 16 she must shower EOD or she stinks. My soap is gentile on her skin, but gets her clean. Me? I just like knowing what went into the soaps. We are an Un-junked family!

 

[penelopejane]

OP: you can also put a divider in your mold using coreflute board or thick plastic and hold it in place with a piece of wood.

Try avocado or almond oil. A basic soap 30/30/30/10 OO/palm/coconut/castor will give you a good hard bar and give you an indication of what those ingredients are like in soap. I use castor oil at 5% max and Coconut oil at 15% max (or not at oil) . I would never use or buy a soap with pomace in it (I’m put off by the chemicals used to extract it).

The gecko: less than 10% of any oil other than castor oil is wasted in soap. Add the cocoa butter % to the olive oil instead.

 

[Kari Howie]

I used BrambeBerry's Beginner's Kit so the actual soap turned out beautifully. BUT. The fragrance oil was so strong that we were forced to open every door and window. Hubby shut himself in our bedroom with a towel under the door, and I had a massive headache for hours. Even my neighbor came over wondering what that SMELL was!

My first few months soap making I was running 50/50 on failures and successes. There was the batch that we had to use a screwdriver and a hammer to get out of the mold because I didn't know that you had to line plastic molds...I had only seen folks line wooden molds. I had one batch, beautiful white soap with a bright orange stripe in the center and swirl on top, completely shatter when I went to cut it. The batch were I forgot to add my olive oil, another batch where I grabbed the wrong lye solution, another batch that looked like tapioca, another batch that seized. And my first goat milk soap didn't turn out well either. But even the failures were successes because I learned from them. You can spend 20 years learning how to build a house, but it isn't until you put hammer to wood that the real education begins.

My husband is very...umm...supportive of my efforts: "Well that didn't turn out so well." My daughter though, "That looks like crap Mom, but nice try." She only added the last part because she loves my Chocolate Espresso Soap and wants a full bar for herself. LOL