Beer soap too many bubbles

[isha]

Okay guys..
So after a long wait and few failed effort of flattening beer.. (i lost patience)[emoji28] later

I finally made my beer soap. 70% soft oils
Added 2tsp sugar to beer before freezing (i read somewhere that suga helps flattening faster ) n i also needed a lather booster..

Diluted citric acid with water from the recipe.. Mixed lye + extra lye for CA to the beer cubes..

My issue..
It took forever to dissolve may be 20 mins.. ( it was a small batch. 800 gms of oil)

I soaped at 100 F and whisked it for about 10 minutes. And stick blended it.. Again... Trace took very long... About 20 mins with Sb n whisk alternating. Got a very very thin trace. I simply poured it in the mould. Gave it a nice tap few times and stil had very tiny minute air bubbles which didnt go..
I tried to get rid if them with alcohol spray n tapped again. Few more bubbles floated up.. [emoji856][emoji856][emoji856]
No addatives no colour no fragrance.. Just a plain batch..

Can some one help me understand. Does it always take that long witg beer??
If not what can be the reason.

Why did i get so many bubbles.. Too much sb? Or sugar? Or CA?

 

[BattleGnome]

There could be a couple things going on.
1) the beginning signs of overheating. There’s a ton of sugar in beer and you added more. You didn’t give your full recipe or a fragrance you may have used but overheating is definitely possible. Keep an eye on it and be prepared to put it in the fridge/freezer to cool it quickly.
2) you got too many bubbles in the batter while mixing. It could have happened if you had air bubbles trapped under the stick blender. With a thin trace the bubbles could be dissipating on their own.

I’d guess it’s more the over heating than the bubbles based on sugar content. Keep an eye on it and be prepared to react if you need to.

I’ve never made beer soap, but I’ve made wine soaps. Instead of using a full water replacement I boil down a cup of wine to approximately 1/4 cup and add the wine syrup at trace. That way I have no question about any residual alcohol or anything that might mess with the batter. Another option would be the split method (common for milk soaps) where you mix the lye with and equal amount of water then add the remainder in flattened or reduced beer at trace.

 

[shunt2011]

I’m thinking it’s just air bubbles from whisking and stick blending.

I use beer and just leave it open in the fridge for a couple days or cook it down to a syrup. I never add sugar so should be concerned with possible overheating and would watch it. Salt will help with the foam\head but not needed.

Beer has enough sugar in it already. Your soap will be fine I’m sure as long as it doesn’t overheat too badly.

 

[Obsidian]

I think it's from whisking. I always get bubbles if I use a whisk.

For beer, I cook a bottle down to a couple ounces and add at trace. I don't like mixing lye into any liquid besides water.

 

[DeeAnna]

I can't help with the bubbles, but I have a suggestion for your recipe. You don't give all the ingredients with weights, but I'm guessing you may be using "water as % of oils" and not changing it from the default value. If so, this setting is working against you. "Water as % of fat" calculates more much water in proportion to the NaOH than is ideal for a recipe high in liquid fat.

More water tends to slow saponification and recipes high in liquid fats saponify slower anyway. Another risk is that the soap can separate in the mold when you use more water than is best for the type of recipe you are using. This is an even greater concern with a recipe that may cause fast heating -- in other words, a beer soap. I wouldn't add sugar to a beer soap. Beer provides plenty of heat all on its own.

 

[isha]

Thanks for ur replies. I used lye% at 33 and sf at 5
I never use water as % of fat.. ( as i dont understand using it)

I still have some beer left in the frigde.. But again its with added sugar.
I ll try another batch by reducing this and using 50/50 water n syrup. Hope that will cut down on some heat..
Also my morning batch is covered n kept under towels.. Should i just leave it open???

 

[BattleGnome]

At this point I think you’re out of overheating danger. Based on the time you posted, it’s been almost 24 hours

 

[isha]

Yup... Its been 24 hrs

 

[Nanditasr]

There’s a ton of sugar in beer and you added more...

How does one figure out how much sugar is too much?
Suppose we dissolve the lye in just water and not milk or beer. While I often read that the optimal quantity is about 1 teaspoon PPO, what happens if I use, say 2 tablespoons PPO in a non-CO soap, in the hope of making it more lathering? During the process of soaping, heating is certainly an issue. But what happens to the finished product with this sugar excess?

 

[toxikon]

I believe IrishLass likes to use 2 tbsp PPO sugar in some recipes. So you do have some wiggle room. If you keep adding more and more sugar you'll eventually get to the point where the soap starts turning weird. I believe it can become rather spongy and sticky with too much sugar. I'm not sure what that upper limit is, however.

 

[Nanditasr]

How does one figure out how much sugar is too much?
Suppose we dissolve the lye in just water and not milk or beer. While I often read that the optimal quantity is about 1 teaspoon PPO, what happens if I use, say 2 tablespoons PPO in a non-CO soap, in the hope of making it more lathering? During the process of soaping, heating is certainly an issue. But what happens to the finished product with this sugar excess?

I should have specified non-CO, non-PKO, non-babassu!

 

[Soapprentice]

I should have specified non-CO, non-PKO, non-babassu!

Well... I saw some post where someone said they use 4 spoons... I use 1.5-2,depending on the recipe.. I have a recipe which over heats and cracks with 2 tbsps and doesn’t with 1.5... the main issue I think is overheating. But, I can not be sure because i never used more than 2.

Also the sugar doesn’t help in creating lather.. it enhances it.. so, even with added sugar the non-CO soap will not lather more than a soap with CO in my experience.

 

[DeeAnna]

Try more sugar and see what you think. For every recommendation of 1 tsp sugar or whatever, you'll find someone who has used a lot more and thinks it's fine.

There is a limit to how much sugar will give you the results you want without creating some disadvantages, however. A higher % of sugar may increase the chance of overheating as others are sayng, but it will also increase the chance the cured soap may stay softer than you want and may weep in humid weather.

Sugar is one of the solvents often used to make transparent type soaps, and I know softness and weeping are the downsides of using too much sugar in this type of soap.

 

[earlene]

I have not experienced spongy soap with sugar, but maple syrup in the same amount as regular granulated sugar definitely creates a spongy soap. As you can guess, I don't recommend maple syrup in anything but minute amounts, should you ever decide to experiment with other sugary substances in your soaps.

I tend to use granulated sugar in packets because I travel a lot and take them home with me to use in soap since I don't drink sweetened drinks. So in my notes, I usually say 'x sugar packets'. I have actually never figured out how that compares to spoonsful. Well I just Googled it and it looks like the standard here in the US is 1 sugar packet equals 1 teaspoon. So I guess I don't really use a high amounts of sugar. It looks like I keep it at about 1.25 teaspoons ppo, which isn't very high. Except maybe once when I didn't make a notation as to how much sugar I may have added, but the soap tends to sweat unlike any other soap I've made. However it stops sweating once the soap is used on a daily basis. I wonder if I added too much sugar. Another example of how important detailed note-taking is!

Cool, I learned something new today. And found a possible cause for a mystery that has plagued me since I made that soap that I love so much. So now I can experiment with sugar to see if that was the cause for my sweaty soap. I love that!

 

[Nanditasr]

I finally made my beer soap. 70% soft oils
... Trace took very long... About 20 mins with Sb n whisk alternating. Got a very very thin trace. I simply poured it in the mould.
View attachment 28522

I attempted a beer soap last night, and I had exactly the same problem!I didn't add any extra sugar, and I soaped at room temperature, as I always do nowadays. 63% soft oils. I used SoapCalc's default of water as % of oils, and did a 12% water discount on that. Even now, 12 hours later, it looks like it's at medium trace! Anyway, I'll watch it for a day.

 

[GreenDragon]

I've made several batches of beer soup, all with good results so far (darn it, now I've jinxed myself!). A few thoughts:
1) What type of beer are you using? "Light", Lager, or Ale? Are they light or dark? Ales and dark lagers have more residual sugars in them, so no need to add any more.
2) Not sure why you are adding CA to the recipe. Beer is already acidic, even when flat, so I don't add any CA to my beer soaps. Try a test batch w/o the CA.
3) Instead of sugar, I whisk in a tsp or two of kosher salt to my room temperature beer to help flatten it, then stick it in the freezer. I then use my "beer cubes" to dissolve the NaOH.

Try again and have fun! I'll post one of my recipes tonight for comparison.

 

[jcandleattic]

I agree with what ^^ @GreenDragon said, only I use table salt instead of kosher salt. I NEVER boil (or even warm) my beer to remove the alcohol, and I've never had a problem with it seizing. Sometimes, depending on the scent I use, it will accelerate slightly, but I'm usually always prepared for that.

 

[Nanditasr]

I've made several batches of beer soup, all with good results so far (darn it, now I've jinxed myself!). A few thoughts:
1) What type of beer are you using? "Light", Lager, or Ale? Are they light or dark? Ales and dark lagers have more residual sugars in them, so no need to add any more.
2) Not sure why you are adding CA to the recipe. Beer is already acidic, even when flat, so I don't add any CA to my beer soaps. Try a test batch w/o the CA.
3) Instead of sugar, I whisk in a tsp or two of kosher salt to my room temperature beer to help flatten it, then stick it in the freezer. I then use my "beer cubes" to dissolve the NaOH.

Try again and have fun! I'll post one of my recipes tonight for comparison.

Lager. Light-coloured. I added the CA to combat the hard water here. I didn't add any sugar since my recipe has 23% CO, so I figure that will give it enough lather. I did add salt, albeit only about 1/2 tsp, to harden the bar. My beer was already really flat -- it was too flat to drink, which is why I decided to use it here! And I didn't heat it all or reduce it in any way. I added some honey at trace; it's ostensibly a beer honey soap.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts; I look forward to your recipe. Actually, I just checked on my soap -- despite its frustrating time to trace, it is now setting quite nicely; I'll unmould it tomorrow (about 48 hours after pouring).

 

[GreenDragon]

Sorry for the delay, I got distracted last night. Attached is my basic beer recipe, with a few examples of variations. On the left is a soap made with dark beer and ground oatmeal, middle is my black and tan soap made with a dry lager, and on the right is a batch made with an IPA and green coloring.

 

[Nanditasr]

Sorry for the delay, I got distracted last night. Attached is my basic beer recipe, with a few examples of variations. On the left is a soap made with dark beer and ground oatmeal, middle is my black and tan soap made with a dry lager, and on the right is a batch made with an IPA and green coloring.

Thanks for sharing the recipe. Mine was with 63% soft oils because I'm obsessed with moisturising soaps. 50% canola, 21%CO, 10.5% soybean. I think it needs a 15-20% water discount.